Of course nobody can match BYD, they don’t just own the supply chain the Chinese government subsidizes every part in their supply chain. The Chinese government wants to crush foreign competitors. And before you say that Tesla gets subsidies, it’s no where near as extensive as the subsidies Chinese EV manufacturers get.
China doesn't need to subsidize the entire supply chain because the reason Chinese EVs are so cheap is literally hyper-capitalism. China has had an immensely competitive EV market for years, and they're been getting into price wars without government intervention. That's forced innovation at a pace that Tesla cannot match alone because they have no need to compete at such a pace. Here's a list of national EV subsidies and their status:
In 2022, the 12600RMB consumer incentive to buy a BEV vehicle was ended. This is rather similar to Biden's EV tax credit.
China has waived the consumption tax for the EV market, which is a tax designed to target environmentally-unfriendly products. The consumption tax is commonly applied to automobiles, but they're being explicitly waived for the EV market for what is hopefully an obvious reason.
Currently, the tax-free allowance for an EV (the portion of an EV purchase that is not charged VAT) is 30000RMB (@13% VAT, = 3900RMB). This subsidy is being reduced in 2025 and phased out entirely in 2027. This is also rather similar to Biden's EV tax credit.
Costs of EV charging/battery switching on the grid are borne by the government because the government manages electricity on the supply-side, including finding producers and managing distribution. This is not unusual of crown corporations in other countries.
While there are provincial incentives for companies to set up shop in one province over another, they're smaller scale, not received support at the national level, and not unique to China (see: subsidies to Tesla for their production and to Amazon for their HQ2). The most unique element of China's subsidy regime is the elimination of excess consumption tax in the EV market, which has created a huge marginal advantage for developing EVs over developing ICE automobiles. Importantly, that subsidy is simply reducing the excess tax charged on automobile manufacturing over that charged on typical consumption.
Subsidiaries enabling a more rapid transition away from fossil fuels by lowering the cost to consumers is a great thing, and what's even more impressive is they're also using subsidized projects to install high-speed or low cost rail lines all over the world.
It's great that there's a country working so hard to help is turn the corner on climate change especially as they're focusing on making life better for the working classes. The country has lots of problems but we all do, they're also doing great things which I think we could learn a lot from them.
A lot of people are saying this is bad, but for once, I'm on China's side here.
The faster we pivot away from fossil fuels, the better, by any means necessary.
And don't underestimate, that Human Right Violations are a competitive advantage, too. You don't even need to argue with slave labor from Uygurs, but not allowing unions and having really low labour standards brings the costs down.
Uh... yeah? China beats nearly everyone on price but you don't go there for quality and durability.
The American car companies haven't exactly been stellar with regards to quality, reliability, and safety lately either.
Lately?
My VW-built EV seems pretty high quality. China and USA aren't the only game in EVs.
Get Yourself an European car???? That's where you go for quality
Then get yourself a Japanese car. That's where you go for reliability.
Depends on the make and model.
Maybe you haven't looked into just how badly Teslas are made, it's become a meme.
As if Tesla was famous for its quality and durability either.
That view is unfortunately out of date. Many Chinese products are of equal or superior quality to their global counterparts. Think Lenovo laptops and OnePlus smartphones. Chinese stuff can be cheap and high quality.
Then it's got to be what the person below said: beating the hell out of their workers, poor conditions and benefits, stuff like that.
You are one hundred per cent correct. There're a million things you can criticise Chinese manufacturing for but universally poor quality isn't one of them
Lenovo has lost all sense of reputation for me after the whole superfish fiasco.
That's what the British car industry said in the 60s and 70s about Japanese cars. Everyone bad mouthed anything made in Japan as being poor quality.
The Japanese succeeded through good products and their domestic rivals (in Britain) being arrogant, xenophobic and letting standards slide thinking they were great and couldn't be beaten.
I've a Japanese Honda CRV (ironically built in UK) and a Chinese built MG5 EV. The EV is best built car I've owned in 35 years.
Many established car brands are going to disappear Tesla, I believe, being one.
I once read that the failure of British industrial policy to engage labour as a long term competitive edge instead of a dispensable short term concern saw Germany overtake British car makers. Germany dealt with labour strikes more comprehensively by engaging labour in policy structures. Like including Labour representatives in boardrooms.
I wonder how this may reflect on Chinese / Western competitiveness.
Found the piece: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-23406467
I wonder how this may reflect on Chinese / Western competitiveness.
Sounds like it's almost a 1:1 copy of what happened with the Brits.
For whatever reason, English speakers are easily-duped into thinking non-English speakers can't compete.
They produce a lot of quality and durable products in China. Apple and Tesla are both producing there, as do many thousands of other companies.
Your iPhone / Samsung is manufactured there. So no, that's a bad take. You get what you pay for, and good quality is still cheaper than made elsewhere.
Samsung is slowly moving some production from China though. For instance, my phone is manufactured in Vietnam instead.
That doesn't say much about the build quality though as the reason companies are moving out of China is Chinas increased manufacturing costs.
Samsung isn't building their phones in South Korea anymore?
The BYD cars they sell in the West are pretty decently build. I’d be more worried about the aftersales services. Chinese electronics companies always have shitty customer service. Like Lenovo and Huawei. And since a car always needs some repairs during its lifetime I will never buy an EV from a Chinese brand unless they have proven to have good aftersales service.
You gotta be a special kind of innocent to think Americans make quality automobiles.
Not to mention: I’ll eat my hat if the CCP isn’t providing some sort of subsidization, for no other reason than the fact that it’s a national pride thing for them
Most carmakers get heavily subsidized. All the German ones for example. It’s a big industry and states like to keep their brands competitive.
BYD is better quality than the shit Stellantis puts out
Is this another case of subsidizing the product to sell the data? Information over each individuals driving habits, audio from the car, connection to the phone. Could be valuable to the CCP.
Are these even street legal in the US? Our safety standards are obscene. Air bags alone cost 5k.
It's why Tata never released a vehicle here.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
When China’s BYD recently overtook Elon Musk’s Tesla as the global leader in sales of electric vehicles, casual observers of the auto industry might have been surprised.
But what’s caught other carmakers around the world off-guard is something else about BYD, which is backed by Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway: its low prices.
While BYD cars are not yet a common sight on American roads, many experts believe it’s only a matter of time, despite the high tariffs that help keep them at bay for now.
But BYD is planning to export much cheaper models to markets around the world, including Europe, South America, and Southeast Asia.
In November, House lawmakers warned about Chinese giants like BYD “gaining a back door to the U.S. market” through the southern neighbor.
BYD also has the advantage of its founder and CEO Wang Chuanfu, a relentless cost-cutter whom the late Charlie Munger—Buffett’s long-time partner at Berkshire—described in one of this final interviews last year.
The original article contains 556 words, the summary contains 160 words. Saved 71%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
This is why Americans hate China. It's legitimate competition for them.
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