He’s not the man I knew. He doesn’t have the wisdom I thought he did.
The grief is really, really real. I’m so sorry. I feel this way about several people I grew up around, It sucks to realize people you respected aren’t interested in doing the right thing or even acknowledging reality.
Do what I do, play dumb. "What does woke mean, grandad? I'm out of the loop here." It's fun. I think I've made a few realize how dumb they sound by their facial expressions, but they'll never admit it.
Luckily I don't have any red hats in my family.
I am drunk AF, but yeah. If people don't have the decency to understand ecology, fuck em. They are living in their own world which does not reflect reality. If they choose to deny every logical point you present, that is on them.
I'm drunk as well. Fuck em. They chose not see things as they are and accept others for who they are. They chose to drink the poison.
Just going to point out that alcohol is literally a poison people drink to make them feel good. In much the same way that listening to someone who is projected as an authority figure, telling you that everything that's wrong in your life is someone else's fault makes your grandpa feel good.
He doesn't have to feel bad for supporting bad politicians/policies, because they would have worked if not for those damn immigrants.
He doesn't have to feel bad about voting to deny people abortions because they're all just drugged up sluts who should be punished with children.
He doesn't have to feel bad about destroying the environment because science is wrong sometimes(I can't really condense the rhetoric on denying climate change because it literally makes no sense?).
The reason they watch this stuff is to feel better about themselves. And just like an alcoholic, indulging in performative blame-shifting politics can make you feel good in the short-term, while negatively impacting your life in a million different ways, ultimately resulting in you losing your friends, loved ones, career, and community.
What's the difference between your grandfather and a lib supporting Genocide?
Have you tried locking Fox behind parental controls on their TV?
Maybe I could have early on, but cousins would have probably unlocked it. Too late now. Now I'm just tired.
It could be due to an illness since you said he was never like this before. See what he's like on Friday.
I have similar issues with my family. Never forget how much they love you, and never forget that they are the ones who helped you become the person you are today, regardless of the politics and or language they used to get you there
They have become what they taught me not to be. I studied what they told me was the truth. They would crucify Jesus for being a pinko commie. Something changed and they aren't who they used to be. I have a lot of trouble trying to make peace with it.
They opened your eyes. Give thanks for that. The world works in mysterious ways, and they need your love more than ever now.
This actually sounds a bit toxic tbh
How so? Because the family is toxic?
It's not necessarily the case in this specific situation but in general this way of thinking can prevent people from getting out of situations that are really bad for their mental health.
That was the case for me at least where I didn't cut off harmful family members out of a sense of obligation to them but that was a bit of a different situation to what the OP is describing.
This… I don’t necessarily agree with this. If you come from a healthy, functional family, then sure, but for those of us who don’t, this is a very unhealthy attitude to keep, and is a mindset that is very easily manipulated.
My sympathies. Ignorance, especially willful ignorance, can be absolutely exhausting to deal with.
Don’t focus on that. Just remember that Friday is probably the last time you’ll see him alive. Try to steer the conversation towards pleasant memories. Make the conversation about his life, not current events. Ask him about his childhood, his first car, how he met your grandmother; stuff like that. People like to talk about themselves. Plus, it’ll keep the conversation away from politics.You might even learn some interesting family history!
Not to mention possibly have one last happy memory with a relative you thought was gone forever. If he steers it back into hatred, well, at least you tried.
Not sure what you're saying about the local ecology. In any case, it's changed radically since I was a kid in the 70s, plain to see.
FFS, you don't have to clean the bugs off the windshield at every gas stop. That should be a major wake-up call to us old folks. The bottom of the food chain dropped out!
Nothing you can do OP.
We’d drive across the state as a kid and at the end of the day it was a sticky mess that was beginning to impact a driver’s ability to see well. I drove across the country a couple years ago and there were days at a time where we didn’t need to clean the windshield.
I had the same experience. Driving three hours in an Ohio summer in the 90's meant consistently using the wipers and fluid to get bugs off the windshield. Then in 2013, driving across country, I had to clean my windshield of bugs, a single time. Now? haven't needed to clean the windshield in years.
I ask my conservative father about these things, he just ignores it. Literally, if it doesn't fit within his small, hate-filled world-view, then it might as well not exist. If I insist upon a response, he just starts hating me.
It feels as though I'm losing my parents in much the same way dementia would take them. Except it's not some medical condition, it's smug assholes in suits profiteering off peddling hate.
Yes you do lol, bugs messing up my windshield dam it lol
There’s nothing stopping you from going NC with extended - or even immediate - family, if they negatively impact your sanity to that degree. At the end of the day, you’re human, and so is everyone else. Live your life on your own terms.
I don't disagree, but when you mention it like that, I can't help but think of how cults shun people who don't assimilate.
Either this is a significant personality change that would indicate an illness requiring treatment, or this is who he's secretly always been in which case you're really not losing anything but your illusions and if this is the last time you see him then you're not really losing anything important.
If it's the former it may help you to feel better by trying to get him some help, even if you fail then at least you tried. If it's the latter then it's just best to cut your losses as soon as possible and move on.
For your gandfather, could it be dementia? Personality change, including dropping of inhibitions, can be signs of that.
No, he's still sharp. This shit ate my parents, cousins, aunts and uncles. I've got one aunt that is still sane and she moved away when I was a kid.
If you are going to be upset about other people like this, you will be in a state of constant anger.
It's not your responsibility to control what people do or think. My advice is to let those people be who they are, while you focus on being the best you can be.
Keep the people you vibe with in your life, and let the others go. Meet your grandfather and just observe him. This is life showing you someone who is hateful, from the sound of it. It's just an example of who not to be, that's all it is. Learn from that and remain calm.
You can do it. :)
If you are in the right state of mind, you can even smile at horrible things he says, because it's just about him, not anyone else. You will start to view him as someone funny, like a child that messes up because they don't know better.
Don't fight people you don't agree with. Just say what you think, and leave. No need to argue at all.
There is wisdom in what you say.
I tried to help them. I wanted them to see a way without the hate.
It hurts a lot that they can't come with me. I love them so much. It's not okay that I can't help them. My grandfather. My family. We make our choices.
It is so so so painful to lose a loved one.
It is excruciating to lose them before they die.
Even worse is when you see parts of what you liked about them suffocating beneath the propaganda that poisoned them. This is like a threefold death.
"This is like a threefold death."
It really is. Grieving is a process and it comes in waves.
You will start to view him as someone funny, like a child
Well his grandfather is so old he's probably well on his way becoming a child again.
This feels like excerpts I read of “here’s just an example of how disenchantment and loss had impacted everyday citizens of _ in the early _ century”.
I forget what kind of coping mechanism it is called where I try to see things historically when they hit a little too close to home.
Disassociation?
Voilà yup
I know where your coming from. My parents feel right down the racist conspiracy theory rabbit hole during Brexit and COVID. I was working in the hospital watching people and colleagues die regularly and my dad was telling me it's just flu and all a hoax to scare people, they convinced my 90 year old grandma to not get the vaccine. We had a lot of fights. Eventually after a lot of reflecting I decided that having a relationship with my family was more important than winning an argument so now we just have a selection of topics I refuse to engage with, just say let's move on and change the topic. I found it really hard to see the people who raised me fall into racist rhetoric and conspiracy theory thinking, these people taught me to be a good person and now have some glaring holes in their compassion for others. I struggled with that for a long time.
If it was drug use wed call this enabling. Family shouldn't get a pass to be dick bags.
It is also caring for oneself/ their own wellbeing and sanity.
but just like being addicted to a drug, we can't force them to stop. They have to want to change themselves. And if they don't stop, what, we're supposed to cut off our whole family? That won't stop them from continuing to be hateful, but it will stop us from having a meaningful relationship with our loved ones. All we can do is make our values clear when they attempt to bring up any of their hateful BS, and then move onto something else.
I had a similar experience. I was working in D.C. and had focused on Ukraine, of all things, well before it became an international talking point. As Russia got increasingly involved in U.S. politics via Trump, I found I couldn't really share what I was seeing/experiencing first-hand, because back home, my family was actively falling for the same bullshit I was trying to scream about in D.C. It's all been so surreal.
They sound like my boomer parents. I just keep them far away from me. We talk once every 6 months or so, that's it. They live a 2 hour drive away, but now that I don't have a car anymofe it's 4,5h with public transportation, so a good reason not to visit them. I love it. I'm just waiting for them to die. Stupid boomers. They fucked up my youth, they fucked up the world, now they spread hate.
Just live your own life, surround yourself with people who are like minded. I have a lot of friends around me, I left my family. The expression "blood runs thicker then water" is originally longer. Many people interpret it as family bonds being stronger then friends, but the entire expression is "blood runs thicker then water from the womb" meaning the exact opposite. You can choose your friends, you're stuck with the people who are your family, you can't choose your family. But you can choose to not talk to them anymore and to focus on friends instead.
Feel you! My family are immigrants in Germany and my grandpa who was always misogynist and all that old school bullshit, I loved him anyway because as a kid I didn’t realize and he always brought us chocolate and ice cream so I wanted to only remember that.
But in the last couple years he started saying more and more racist shit, being really angry and I’m pretty sure he’s now voting for AfD (our local MAGA). My brother started telling me how we need to deport more people and how all of those immigrants should integrate and learn German Blabla and how they’re not contributing. I was like, do you remember that we’re also immigrants my man?
It’s an epidemic, idk what else to say, but I wish you strength and patience to deal with this, certainly I need it myself.
Be mad at the propagandists. The same thing happened to my best friend and my father. It's 99.999% at the feet of the likes of fox news and Newsmax.
They get introduced through the lense of "fairness" (illegal immigrants "skip the line" it's not fair!) (msm lies about trump, it's not fair!) (I pay taxes and it goes to lazy people, it's not fair!) and these outlets keep tickling your amygdala keeping you angry and it just spirals. These people end up watching right wing media as "hate-porn" and it becomes a bit of an addiction. They completely believe they are on the right side and any time you bring up some disgusting thing a right winger said/did they can dismiss it as "lies" because their chosen hate-monger tells them as such.
They have some blame as they allow themselves to hate, they form some justification, but you can see it here too from "the left." See just how many people (myself included) will say how much they hate Republicans (in office for me) so it's entirely a human thing which is why I blame propaganda almost entirely.
I should change my username because I say it so often, but I FUCKING HATE PROPAGANDISTS!
https://youtu.be/FS52QdHNTh8?si=Cr5PW-7FQJimgHbI your post reminded me of this amazing documentary called "The Brainwashing of my Dad" in which the documentarian talks about how Rush Limbaugh and the greater right wing fox news propaganda machine turned a man he once respected and looked up to for his strong character and morals into a barely functioning hatemonger.
So many people I love fell down this hole. I used to listen to Limbaugh, everyone did. As I was coming out of bad religion, I stopped.
I'd like to piss on that motherfucker's grave. He killed my family.
I have no pity for willfully ignorant people
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