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submitted 5 months ago by Cameri@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

Hey guys, what are your thoughts on the existence of extraterrestrial life and the potential involvement of governments in concealing or studying such entities.

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[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 111 points 5 months ago

Life probably exists somewhere else.

That doesn't mean they visit us in secret and there's a conspiracy to hide it.

It's two very different things

[-] TheButtonJustSpins@infosec.pub 51 points 5 months ago

Also, life and intelligent life are two different things.

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[-] Ephera@lemmy.ml 60 points 5 months ago

I assume other life exists somewhere, because the universe is practically infinite in size, but I also assume that we will not meet them, because the universe is practically infinite in size.

[-] PiJiNWiNg@sh.itjust.works 18 points 5 months ago

Basically my thoughts. The speed of light, while the fastest thing we know, is as slow as smell on the scale of the universe. Any race of beings able to get here, check us out, and leave, would need technology that would break physics as we understand it. Not to say it's impossible, but we've now firmly stepped into beliefs, rather than anything based on observable data. Also, the notion of a race being so advanced they can travel faster than light accidentally crashing on our planet is pretty silly to me.

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[-] Dirk@lemmy.ml 57 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I am sure there are extraterrestrial life forms. It's scientific consensus.

I do not think "the government" has proof and hides that from us.

[-] Carrolade@lemmy.world 30 points 5 months ago

The universe is big enough that life probably exists in other places. Anything advanced enough to reach us (an extraordinarily difficult feat) would not be dumb and incompetent enough to fall under the control of people, and people just want to believe in something fun to compensate for how boring modern life can be.

[-] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 5 months ago

would not be dumb and incompetent enough to fall under the control of people

Never underestimate the stupidity of smart people/potential other sentient beings.

[-] Carrolade@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

Also good to never underestimate human negativity bias, where the brain remembers bad things far more than it remembers positive things.

Look at air travel. We invented it over a century ago, and have made it safe enough that a single failure out of thousands of successful flights becomes newsworthy.

The statistical likelihood of stupid-yet-capable aliens happening to fuck up that badly is very small.

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[-] weew@lemmy.ca 28 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Extraterrestrial life = yes. It's a big universe and the chances of us being the only life in the entire universe is slim.

Aliens visiting us = no. For the same reason as above. It's a big ass universe.

Governments being able to hide aliens from us = lol no. If aliens had the tech to travel a million light years to visit us, they'd have taken over the planet in an hour.

[-] 0_0j@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

If aliens had the tech to travel a million light years to visit us, they'd have taken over the planet in an hour.

Lol Too long, 10 minutes?

TBF, it took 2 minutes for aliens to be worshiped as "eye in the sky" in 3bp

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[-] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Anyone who thinks the government can hide anything is vastly overestimating their capabilities. They're basically keystone cops with the demeanor of storm troopers. Play benny hill or imperial march over literally any declassified CIA document and at least one of them will fit.

[-] stanleytweedle@lemmy.world 25 points 5 months ago

existence of extraterrestrial life

Absolutely certain

and the potential involvement of governments in concealing or studying such entities.

Completely absurd.

The Fermi Paradox is only a paradox if you apply a ludicrously unjustified value to the last figure in the Drake equation.

Technological civilizations are very likely self-extinguishing simply because technological power grows faster than any evolved species capacity to apply that technology to the benefit of the species.

Only way out of that would be that bio life is just a bootstrap for machine life and machine life just isn't that interested in interacting with biological life so we'll never see or hear from it.

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[-] Rottcodd@kbin.social 18 points 5 months ago

I recognize that the universe is so vast that it's likely that life forms other than us exist in it, but that's the extent of it.

I've seen no verifiable evidence that they in fact do, so I don't "believe" that they do.

Really, I don't "believe" in much of anything for which there is no verifiable evidence. I don't even understand how that works - how it is that other people apparently do. It's not a conscious choice or anything - it's just appears that there's a set of requirements that must be met before the position of "belief" is triggered inside my mind, and one of those requirements is verifiable evidence. Without that, the state of "believing" just isn't triggered, and it's not as if I can somehow force it, so that's that.

As far as I can see, governments are comprised almost entirely of psychopaths, opportunists, charlatans and fools, so I see little likelihood that they possess concealed knowledge regarding any nominal extraterrestrial life. First, and most simply, if they did possess any such knowledge, it's near certain that somebody would've blabbed something by now.

Beyond that though, I think it's exceedingly unlikely that any alien life form capable of traveling interstellar distances would, on arriving on the Earth, seek out contact with a government, much less limit its contact to a government. If they're that advanced, it can only be the case that they, in their own development, either never bought into the flatly ludicrous and clearly destructive idea of institutionalized authority or overcame it before it inevitably destroyed them, and in either case, I don't see any reason why they would lend any credence to our mass delusion that this one subset of humanity forms a specially qualified and empowered elite that rightly oversees everyone else's interests. That's our delusion - not theirs.

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[-] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 17 points 5 months ago

I do I just wish they believed in me.

sigh

[-] Sam_Bass@lemmy.ml 6 points 5 months ago

Can imagine the disillusionment aliens would feel having seen us from 10 light years away and constantly watching us as they approach until they get close enough for the data to be virtually current. I wouldnt wanna visit either. Probably be attacked on sight.

[-] Zozano@lemy.lol 17 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The chances of extra terrestrial life to have visited earth is very, very small.

The chances of life to occur are small enough,

The chances of evolution to pass through multiple extinction events and producing a being capable of higher intelligence is even smaller,

The chances they have done this faster than humans is smaller still,

The chances they have evolved close enough to us to have visited is near impossible.

The universe is huge, there's almost certainly life elsewhere - but to ask whether they visited earth is like speculating on whether ghosts exist.

Also the universe is expanding at such a fast rate that unless we develop faster-than-light tech, we will never reach another solar system.

[-] crapwittyname@lemm.ee 21 points 5 months ago

This is a valid reading of the Fermi paradox. But just for balance I'm going to devil's advocate all over it.

The chances of life to occur are small enough,

Not known. At the moment the data set is one habitable planet = one occurrence of life, so the odds might be very high indeed, even approaching 1:1

The chances of evolution to pass through multiple extinction events and producing a being capable of higher intelligence is even smaller,

They are smaller, but how much smaller is impossible to tell. What if extinction events are less frequent than they are here? What if 100% extinction events are as rare as they are here? What if intelligence is a natural point of evolution everywhere?

The chances they have done this faster than humans is smaller still,

This one's not true. The earth is relatively young at 4 billion years compared to 15 billion for the universe. A billion year headstart is completely plausible

The chances they have evolved close enough to us to have visited is near impossible.

Agreed that the earth's position in the milky way is a bit of a galactic backwater. At 25000 light years from the centre, stars are more sparse here than they are at the centre. But our nearest star is 4ly away. We could have a probe there within half a century with our current technology if we wanted to. So I disagree on the "near impossible" part.

The universe is huge, there's almost certainly life elsewhere - but to ask whether they visited earth is like speculating on whether ghosts exist.

Can't really argue with that. Until we see some evidence, ghosts and galactic visitors are in the 'conspiracy nut' bin. But it doesn't mean life on other planets doesn't exist. There are many theories why we wouldn't have seen or met alien life if it does exist. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

Also the universe is expanding at such a fast rate that unless we develop faster-than-light tech, we will never reach another solar system.

Hubble expansion isn't a big factor at the galactic level. Galaxies are traveling away from other galaxies at relative speeds faster than light, but for stars within the galaxy, the scale is infinitely smaller and the expansion is so small it's difficult to even measure.

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[-] dan1101@lemm.ee 16 points 5 months ago

I believe there is extraterrestrial life, unless God exists. Then who knows?

I think UFOs have natural explainations, are mistakes or hoaxes, or are human technology.

I seriously doubt aliens have traveled here only to play peek-a-boo in the skies. I could sooner believe UFOs were interdimensional anomalies than aliens who traveled from another planet in the universe via space.

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[-] amio@kbin.social 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The potential existence of sentient life out there? Sure. Space is big.

Anything that's ever interacted with us or is likely in a position to ever be able to do so? No. Space is big.

[-] Chainweasel@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

While I 100% believe that the universe is probably crawling with extraterrestrial life, I don't think any of it has visited us here.
Any alien race who had the technology to travel across the galaxy would look at humanity the same way we look at an ant hill while we're driving down the highway, we don't even notice it.
Sure, there may be some alien scientists that want to study our planet the same way that our scientist want to study ants, but what are the chances they even know about us? And is there anything interesting enough about us to distinguish us from all the other ant hills?

[-] Nacktmull@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago

The probability that there are no aliens is very small, considering just how large the universe is. For the same reason we will probably not get to meet them though.

[-] mdhughes@lemmy.ml 12 points 5 months ago

Is there other intelligent alien life in our Galaxy? Probably. Given how fast life formed on Earth, there must be millions of other life-bearing planets, and intelligence can't be that rare, but it might be short-lived.

Are there UFO sightings? Yes, people do see unidentified flying objects. Some of them can be explained, some cannot.

Are the UFOs aliens? I don't know, I'm a "curious agnostic" on the subject.

There's a LOT of UFO sightings, and evidence from good observers, including US Navy aviators. The US Air Force continues not to cooperate, and officially denies any sightings exist. The very enthusiastic refusal to look at evidence, aside from Project Blue Book, is suspicious.

It's technically plausible that someone within 50-ish light years of Earth could have heard our radio, sent a ship here, and use drones or manned ships to observe us without interacting. There could also be many other explanations.

We don't know, and until the last couple years there was no effort to investigate.

[-] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago

The very enthusiastic refusal to look at evidence

That just makes me think the air force knows exactly what the UFO was because they were flying it.

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[-] SuiXi3D@fedia.io 11 points 5 months ago

Yep. The universe is so vast that alien life most certainly exists, but simply due to the distance between them and us we’ll likely never detect it. The farther things are from us, the longer it takes for light to get to us. Something 100 light years away is just that, it takes a hundred years to get to us.

[-] Syn_Attck@lemmy.today 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Humans have been around for an estimated 300,000 years, or 1.09575e+8 days. Here are a few things that would not have been believed possible by 99.9% of the population, including the most rational and logical thinkers, only 150 years ago (54,787 days).

  • Microchips
  • Nuclear weapons, and usable, controllable nuclear fusion/fission in general
  • The Internet
  • Electric cars
  • Jet propulsion
  • Smartphones
  • Most fields of modern chemistry
  • Most fields of physics
  • etc.

Technological advancements happen at breakneck speed. One mans "you can't break the speed of light" is another mans "you can't fly, humans don't have wings!"

But scientific advancements happen that change our perspective. It's likely we'll never break the light barrier, if it's as solid as our understanding makes it seem. It's less likely we'll never find a way to sidestep that barrier by manipulating other forces. Let's say we find a way to create a gravity well that encompasses a craft. The person in the craft doesn't actually feel like they're falling at infinite-G, they just happen to get from one place to another incredibly fast, passing through various states of matter unperturbed on their way. To us, it looks like they broke the speed of light. In reality, they weren't actually "moving" in the way we think of movement, thereby not needing to break the speed of light.

These advancements happen all the time. If you brought a group of the top scientists from the 1850s to be here with us today, they would have have absolutely no idea what was going on and they would believe they'd gone insane. So many paradigm shifts have happened over the last 150 years that it would be impossible to make sense of it in their (remaining) lifetimes.

I don't know if we're being visited. If we are then it's not likely they're being of another race that came here in a ship. More likely they would be mechanical or biomechanical in nature, some sort of von Neumann probes self-creating and self-spreading reconnaissance craft for an ancient (dead?) race. Or maybe they tapped into another force we don't even have a name or vague idea about yet, maybe a driving force behind consciousness.

But regardless, UAP (unidentified anomalous phenomenon) is a legitimate field of study and I look forward to seeing it grow.

[-] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

At this point, I'm beginning to think the gulf of space is too much to bridge, and if it were possible, they wouldn't bother hiding / being sneaky / probing whatever.

[-] Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I'm not convinced they're visiting us. None of the reports I've seen appear credible. But non-interference is often critical to scientific study. They could just be doing a decent job at hiding from us.

If they're out there, I'd be shocked if they wouldn't visit. Our solar system has been showing life signs for 3.5B years, and technological signs for about a century or so. There aren't apparently many planets like ours around. We are a very tempting target for study.

It appears to be quite difficult to develop a spacefarring civilization. But there are credible models for sailing light beamed from stars, and even gravity surfing orbiting black hole pairs. The vast energies required for interstellar travel should be impossible to conceal. We ought to already be able to see them out there, if they're close.

13.5B years is an eyeblink in the potential age of the Universe. We developed early. Perhaps not first, but very early. Intelligence and technology are difficult and expensive to develop. Our hubris may destroy us. We might easily be alone in our local neighborhood. Technological civilizations may still be rare. But once they go interplanetary, there are few ways for such a civilization to go extinct.

I'm fairly confident they're out there somewhere. I'm sceptical that they're close. We may be the first in our galaxy, or even the Local Group. Who can say? I don't know.

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[-] Matriks404@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Depends on what do you mean by existence of aliens:

  1. Some chemical/biological processes happen on other planets in the universe, that are necessary for life to exist. Or maybe there are "life" forms like viruses.

  2. Life exists, but only in the simplest form, like single-cell organisms (e.g. bacteria).

  3. Life exists, but only in the form of simple multi-cell organisms.

  4. More advanced species exist, like fish or frogs on Earth, but nothing like Humans.

  5. Other advanced species with their own civilizations exist (or existed and destroyed themselves), similar to ours, but again they might not look like humans at all.

  6. Super advanced civilization of aliens exists, and they have tech we could only dream of.

Given that we know only one place where life naturally exists (Earth), it's probably hard to tell which one is true. But I think that it's sane to think that there are at least several other civilizations out there similar to ours, but given that our universe is relatively young, we might be the only one in our neighborhood (even on galaxy level) for now.

It's also very important to note that extraterrestrial life might not resemble our life at all, and make us reconsider what even is life.

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[-] neidu2@feddit.nl 8 points 5 months ago

The universe has so many planets that it is unlikely that life only started on earth. However, the universe is simply too big. We are alone in the universe. And the aliens, they are alone too.

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[-] Nogami@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

I refuse to believe that we are the only intelligent life in the universe, even though for most humans that bar is pretty low.

When I finally “die” I’ll no doubt get kicked back out into the real world and have to plug in another quarter.

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[-] sylver_dragon@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

As others have stated, the existence of extra-terrestrial life seems a near certainty. We know that intelligent life can evolve in the universe (QED: we exist) and given the vastness of the observable universe it seems highly probable that it's happened more than once. Limiting ourselves to just the Milky Way galaxy, again given the size and number of stars, it seems reasonably likely that there is other intelligent life here.

Have they been to Earth? This one strikes me as less likely. The universe is big, just mind bogglingly big. Even an infinitesimally small part of it, like the Milky Way galaxy is still insanely big. And as best as our current understanding of physics provides, we cannot exceed the speed of light. And even trying to approach that speed is fraught with all kinds of problems. At any significant fraction of the speed of light, bumping into tiny bits of space dust can cause real problems for spaceships (think: nuclear weapon level energies released). Even sub-atomic particles cause problems, as they will be the same as high energy radiation at those speeds. Even if those issues can be handled, there is the problem of reaction mass to get ships up to and decelerate from those speeds. Even electric ion engines need some sort of reaction mass to push against, and that has to be carried. This then runs us face first into the Tyranny of the Rocket Equation. For every extra bit of reaction mass you carry, you need even more reaction mass to get everything up to speed. Eventually, you're trying to carry so much mass that the whole thing just gets unfeasible. As a related tanget this XKCD What-If gets into a lot of the same issues.

So ya, I doubt that ET has been to Earth, simply because crossing the gulf of intergalactic space would require an investment of resources which is so insanely big that no sane species would bother. And then there is the whole issue of time. Sure, at a sufficient speed and thanks to Lorentz Contraction you can actually cross the Milky Way galaxy in a reasonable amount of time, in your own frame of reference. IIRC, it's something like a single year assuming 1g acceleration half way there and a similar deceleration after the half-way point (can't be arsed to look it up. You, dear reader, have fun with that). However, to the observer sitting on Earth, it takes much, much longer. So long that the folks sending you off will be dead, decayed, fossilized and those fossils long degraded by the time you get there. When you get back, your home planet may well not exist anymore and and thing resembling your home society will have long been lost to the sands of time. Again, no sane species is going to make such an investment of resources for what is effectively no return.

But wait, what if aliens have some magic technology which lets them bypass the limitations on the speed of light? Ok well, if little green Gandalf can cast a teleport spell on Frodo the tentacled alien, then yes he can toss his thing in whatever crack he wants. But, absent any evidence to show that such magic is possible, then it's not really worth consideration.

So, does "the government" have some secret knowledge about aliens? I highly doubt it. Mostly, because I doubt such exists. But, also consider the difficulty of maintaining such a secret for decades with possibly thousands of people knowing. One of the things you learn about, when you get a US FedGov Clearance, is the concept of "Need to Know". One of the things the US Government learned during the Vietnam War was the fact that the more people who know a secret, the more likely it is to leak. If you have a ton of time and insomnia, I highly recommend reading up on Purple Dragon. Secrets leak, all the time. Yet somehow there has been a massive conspiracy around aliens visiting Earth. Oh and that conspiracy would need to extend beyond just the US Government to include other, hostile, governments. But, the only evidence we have is blury videos and crackpots. Ya, bullshit.

So ya, ET is likely "out there", the math makes it pretty likely. At the same time, physics makes it really, really, really hard for him to get here. And no international conspiracy would be able to hide such events over decades.

[-] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee 8 points 5 months ago

Some alien life definitely exists, the universe is a pretty big place after all. There is also zero chance they have come to earth. Such conspiracies need too many people to keep silent and if the US had known about aliens Trump would have tweeted about it.

[-] deo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 5 months ago

While i do think life exists elsewhere in the universe, I think the chances of extraterrestrial biological entities coming to our planet is exceedingly unlikely. Space is just too big, and there isn't any hard evidence that faster-than-light travel is even possible.

Although, the universe isn't just big -- it's old. There could be some ancient civilization from an ancient planet that became uninhabitable long ago. If they were technologically advanced enough to escape their solar system before things went tits-up AND were able to live multiple generations fully in space AND they just so happened to set out in our direction, I guess it's possible that they found us. Even then, i would expect any UFOs or whatever would merely be probes, not the actual biological entities themselves.

[-] shinigamiookamiryuu@lemm.ee 7 points 5 months ago

Yes, though I doubt any have come to visit. For one thing, although we have seen UFO's on Earth, it's awfully strange nobody has seen them through their telescopes. It's almost as if they're not a space thing after all.

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[-] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 7 points 5 months ago

i think space is too big for aliens to detect, traverse and find us... but thats just going by all known science/reality.

its most likely humans are lying/ignorant with regards to all of the alien-based conspiracies.

[-] AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com 7 points 5 months ago

I do, but I don't believe we've ever been visited by them or will ever be visited by them.

[-] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 5 months ago

There is absolutely other life somewhere. None of it has reached or contacted us, though

[-] Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 5 months ago
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[-] Pulptastic@midwest.social 5 points 5 months ago

Depending on your interpretation of the Drake equation, they are either impossible or inevitable.

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[-] theywilleatthestars@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

I mean, it would be weird if they weren't out there somewhere but I don't think the government knows much more than we do

[-] foggy@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

I kinda don't think there are little gray men

But I think we fundamentally do not understand what it is to be conscious. I don't think we know what is and is not conscious. I think we're limited by our brains and our dimensionality. I think there's a lot more right under our noses.

[-] zloubida@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

The universe is very very big. Unimaginably so. But we have absolutely no idea of how probable the appearance of life is, so we have no idea how probable is it for life to exist elsewhere. So my answer for the first question is: I don't know.

And for the second question, my answer is: haha.

[-] KeepFlying@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

In general, yes. In the expanse of space there must be life somewhere.

For fun I let myself believe they've visited earth, and that at least some UFOs were alien, but that's more of a fun "what if..." belief than anything and it doesn't impact anything beyond my imagination.

[-] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

I don’t think governments are concealing anything but I think once we explore and learn where to look, we’ll find microbial life is everywhere. Maybe underground on Mars and near deep sea vents on Europa or the clouds of Venus.

I also think multicellular life and technological societies are rare, temporary, and fleeting. So, we won’t be finding them. Earth is special in that it had 1,000 conditions that allows us to exist for a brief window. But we’re cavalier about climate change when it could cause ocean acidification and end a good chunk of humanity.

[-] Allero@lemmy.today 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

There's one more thing to consider: when we think of aliens, we constantly think of those blue human-like creatures based on carbon life forms.

Most likely, alien life will be formed entirely differently: maybe it will be silicon-based, maybe something else, or a planetary mind, or something we can't even imagine.

And no, we didn't contact them yet and are unlikely to in many, many lifetimes.

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this post was submitted on 10 Apr 2024
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