67
There should be a semicolon punctuation for exclamation and question marks. (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 1 month ago by HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone to c/showerthoughts@lemmy.world
59 comments fedilink hide all child comments

A difficult part of writing for me is when a single sentence--especially dialogue--contains two tones. It sounds best as a single sentence, but ending with a period, or alternative punctuation, looks wrong. As well as this, using two sentences also looks wrong.

I can't think of a great example right now, but I know I've wanted punctuation that doesn't exist before. I've had moments where it would have been so useful to have a ";!" and a ";?" mark.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] TheSpookiestUser@lemmy.world 38 points 1 month ago

I often see this accomplished with dashed interjections - dashes! can you believe that? - as a way to break up a sentence while still continuing with a single train of thought. But I always support the invention of new punctuation, how long has it been since we got any? We're well overdue.

[-] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

Is the interrobang not enough for you‽

[-] dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 10 points 1 month ago

¡I love the interrobang! But I feel like we need more than just that. ⸘Would it not be fantastic to know the tone of a sentence from the beginning‽

Also, I believe what OP is looking for is something like this image. Sadly, I can't find a keyboard with them, or a copy/pastable line where they've been typed. 1000010473

Would also be useful mixed with the interrobang. The backwards question mark "⸮" is also often used for rhetorical questions. But it's sometimes replaced with ❓because it's easier to type on a phone. ❗Is sometimes used for sarcastic enthusiasm, too, instead of the "official" sarcmark with is apparently copywrited and difficult to parse because it's all swirly and weird, whereas the big red ❗ or ❓ is way more obviously out of place and meant to be noticed, like sarcasm or a rhetorical question.

[-] 418teapot@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I can't find a keyboard with them, or a copy/pastable line where they've been typed

Maybe use combining diacritical marks?

I'm using 0x326 (Combining Comma Below), but you may need the CGJ in there to render correctly in all contexts

e.g.

Foo!̦ Bar?̦

Edit: Combining grapheme joiner, not zero width joiner

[-] dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 month ago

I'm not techy enough to know if that's something I can do on my android or not. Lol. I never use the laptop for anything other than school.

[-] 418teapot@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Ah yeah I don't know how I would do that easily on a phone. Do those in my example above render for you? You should probably be able to just copy/paste them on a phone if they do.

[-] Etterra@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

This is English good sir or madam as the case may be. If you want pre-sentence punctuation you'll have to switch to Spanish or similar. Thank you.

[-] dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 month ago

¡Be the change you want to see in the language! We owe ourselves that much, ¿do we not?

[-] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 month ago

I always enjoy a good interrobang before bed

We're both talking about the same thing right?

[-] HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 month ago

Writing is as much a form of stylistic expression as any other medium.

[-] dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 20 points 1 month ago

¿Perhaps something like this: 1000010473?

[-] olafurp@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Out of all the additions to punctuation I've seen this is the one I find myself needing most often. Interrobangs are easily written as "?!" and even most other ones can be quick fixed with storytelling like "said lovingly", "said with authority" and whatnot.

But "Is that the best, or is it just what we have?" is an absolutely horrible thing to write punctuation for when you mean it as two connected questions like "Is that the best? Or is it just what we have?"

It should obviously be replaced with a question comma. There are so many cases where you also have the question in the middle of the sentence such as "Is that okay (question comma) because I don't think so..."

[-] dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 month ago

I've thought the same thing many times. I love interrobang (not least of which for it's kickass name), but the same sentiment can be expressed in other ways. Dialogue can convey the others, but if you want to recreate the way humans actually speak English, you need a mid sentence punctuation, like a comma, that can express questioning. Even in speech, we change our intonation to be higher when questioning, and we do that sometimes in the middle of a sentence. It's just not conveyable perfectly with our current set of symbols.

[-] HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 month ago

Exactly this. If you know what a semicolon and question mark/exclamation point's purpose is, then you know how this punctuation works. The best tool is that which requires no manual at all. Occam's Razor, or something along those lines.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Boozilla@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago

I've occasionally seen the exclamation mark put inside of parentheses. I interpret it as the writer saying to the reader, "are you seeing this shit?"

Anyway, not sure if that's what you're going for here.

load more comments (7 replies)
[-] pelya@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

I suggest using a ternary operator. At least 10% of Lemmy users will understand this syntax.

[-] spittingimage@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Please, I'm confused enough about what people younger than 30 are trying to say.

[-] j4k3@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

noooo pls don't DRY tun-state-desiccate language with terse-nary cleverness

[-] Klaymore@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

Probably in programming communities ? people will understand : people won't understand

[-] BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place 8 points 1 month ago

Kinda like this sentence?; because it starts off as a question, but I explain it afterwards with a statement.

[-] independantiste@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 month ago

I don't really understand what you mean, do you have examples of how you would use it? Or a scenario where you would need it

[-] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

I’m actually also quite curious

[-] HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 month ago

I actually just started working on a post, and wouldn't you believe it!

"And that's great;! But nobody's as weird as I am."

The first half is intended to be an exclamation, but the rest of the sentence is spoken neutrally. It can't be split into two as leading a sentence with "but" is bad practice. It just doesn't look right any way.

Ah, if only we had a line above a comma..

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Phoenix3875@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

They are already invented: 😱 and 😱😱😱

[-] Klear@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

"The older I grow, the less important the comma becomes. Let the reader catch his own breath."
- Elizabeth Clarkson Zwart

[-] Etterra@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

What we really need is a format option for backwards italics (sartalics) instead of a stupid proprietary font.

[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 month ago

Because English needs to be more complex

[-] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 3 points 1 month ago

Italics

[-] HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 month ago

Have you tried handwriting italics? It's not fun.

[-] spittingimage@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

That's when you underline.

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago

Switch from block letters to cursive, or vice versa. Or all capitals. Anything that shows a difference.

[-] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 3 points 1 month ago

are you envisioning it as a lighter exlamation, question ??

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] Whiskey_iicarus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 month ago

Does this cover what you're asking for, I hope it does?!

[-] HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 month ago

I use these often, but it doesn't solve a sentence being split into two distinct tones. A "!?" mark is useful for when you're effectively shouting a question, but it's not the instance I'm referring to.

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2024
67 points (88.5% liked)

Showerthoughts

29203 readers
1348 users here now

A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The best ones are thoughts that many people can relate to and they find something funny or interesting in regular stuff.

Rules

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
vatlark@lemmy.world
forkball@lemmy.world
quinten@lemmy.world
Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world