submitted 3 weeks ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world
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[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 63 points 3 weeks ago

Erasing a culture? I feel like there's a word for that.

[-] hakase@lemm.ee 30 points 3 weeks ago

Not on lemmy.ml there isn't!

[-] stevedidwhat_infosec@infosec.pub 37 points 3 weeks ago

Had to make sure this wasn’t posted on lemmy.ml before commenting

Think that says enough.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago

I assume they feel this is justified because communism is about equality and you can't have equality if you have multiple cultures, am I right?

[-] stevedidwhat_infosec@infosec.pub 3 points 3 weeks ago

I’m not sure I could fairly attribute the current actions of this instance with a political system per se.

Lots of places try to hide behind surface level groups, but don’t actually employ the dogmas or beliefs in practice.

A good local example would be the Christo-fascist republicans in the US - largely just sycophants

[-] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 weeks ago

This never happened in America with the native population! Capitalism and Democracy! (for the white male landowners)

[-] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 24 points 3 weeks ago

China comments: "nuh-uh, you are rubber I am glue"

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 18 points 3 weeks ago

China is making the wrong decision:

“These name changes appear part of Chinese government efforts to erase the cultural and religious expressions of Uyghurs.”

[-] pumpkinseedoil@sh.itjust.works 17 points 3 weeks ago

Like fascist Italy with South Tyrol... Can we please stop repeating fascist things?

[-] Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

What did they do to south tyrol?

[-] pumpkinseedoil@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

At the time it was annexed (after ww1) it was about 99% German, 1% Ladinian and 0% Italian (obviously, since it never was affiliated with Italy), so they had to try really hard to change that. To do that, they created Italian names for all places (ironically English-speaking people typically use the Italian names nowadays that haven't even existed before), made the native language illegal, made the native culture partly illegal, taught alternative history in school (saying it always was that way and it just was a missing part of Italy despite having been Tyrol for over a thousand years), deporting the native population to Germany, etc. Fascism doing fascism things.

After Italian fascism ended in 1945 it got better, but it took until the 70s for South Tyrol to gain autonomy in most regards and for the native population to gain back their rights. And that also only happened because of a lot of protesting (going as far as blowing things up).

The result of all: Still >70% German, a few % Ladinian, rest Italian. But it would've been different if they hadn't had as much support (from North Tyrol for example) and if it wasn't mountainous (that really helps with doing things secretly that have been made illegal.

Now that less and less people still are here who have experienced fascist oppression it's our task to ensure that it isn't forgotten, forgetting fascism's crimes is the first step towards the return of fascism. Right-wing populist parties are becoming stronger again all over Europe right now, and a few of them have been downplaying fascist crimes already - which wouldn't even be possible if everyone was well informed.

(Btw it already was a widely controversial topic back then - on one side the UK had promised Italy that they'd get South Tyrol (among other areas, some that they also got and some that they didn't get because of mainly USA's concerns) if they joined their side in the war, on the other the USA for example saw the problems that'd be coming with annexing a culturally and historically 100% different region (and trying to replace the native culture) and was firmly against it)

[-] Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Ah I see. So kinda similar to what happened to Gorica and the surroundings of Trst hut even worse because there weren't many Italians in Tyrol in the first place.

[-] pumpkinseedoil@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 weeks ago

Those two were always mixed. Majorly German but still mixed. Most importantly they never were their own culture, just part of a bigger culture. And they weren't cultural core regions.

North Tyrol and South Tyrol, even when ignoring their well over a thousand year old ties with Austria and going back to a time before Austria existed, have always been one culture, united. I guess you could compare it to taking Latium (the region around Rome), splitting it in two parts, choosing one part and making it let's say French, forcing everyone there to be French, trying to replace local culture, cuisine, language, clothes, festivities etc. with their French equivalent, telling people that it has always been French, etc. Not sure if North Latium and South Latium are as close culturally as North Tyrol and South Tyrol, but I suppose so and at least they're an Italian cultural core region and have been for ages so at least in that regard they're comparable.

(Except the people there would have a harder time resisting since they can't hide as easily as in the mountains, so chances for success would be higher.)

And that's not even considering that the cultural gap between Tyrol (typical Alpine culture) and Italy is much bigger than between for example the Provence and Latium (both maritime).

[-] naturalgasbad@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 weeks ago

In 2022 the Karakax County village of Dutar – named for a Uyghur traditional instrument – was renamed Red Flag village.

I'm sure this has nothing to do with the $600 billion water megaproject that IIRC is supposed to route the Red Flag river through that village...

Names come with utility and meaning. If a village has a new utility, it typically takes a new name (New Amsterdam -> New York, Ville-Marie -> Montreal). Guardian at its finest.

[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 4 points 3 weeks ago

This happens on my country all the time of late . I can't even pronounce the letters in the new name of the hospital where I was born.

They're gonna name the town the same name, so I wonder whether I'll get a passport with a home town I can't say or spell, or a passport with a home town that no longer exists. Either way, I'm getting strip-searched .

[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Hundreds of Uyghur villages and towns have been renamed by Chinese authorities to remove religious or cultural references, with many replaced by names reflecting Communist party ideology, a report has found.

“This is part of the broader efforts by the Chinese government to conflate Islam with terrorism,” said Elaine Pearson, the director of Human Rights Watch’s Asia division.

“The names of their villages serve not only as historical records but also embody the community’s ties, distinct town culture, and values.

Since 2017 it has also issued official Chinese names for locations in Arunachal Pradesh, the disputed Himalayan region where China claims territory.

Pearson said: “Part of the reason we know this is happening is that in one case a woman released from a re-education facility tried to get a bus ticket home but found her village didn’t exist any more.”

Since launching its “strike hard” campaign against Uyghur and other Turkic Muslims in 2014 in the name of counter-terrorism, the Chinese government has arbitrarily detained millions of people, in re-education camps and jails, criminalising religious acts such as growing beards or reading the Qur’an.

The original article contains 774 words, the summary contains 184 words. Saved 76%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[-] nekandro@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 weeks ago


You know what the biggest cities in Xinjiang are? Urumqi, Korla, Aksu, Karamay. Those are some Chinese sounding names /s

Note that some towns have been switched to a Mandarin standard. This is especially true when Han populations dominate a particular city (e.g., Shihezi, set up by a Chinese general in 1951), or when a city relies on tourism from other provinces (e.g., Beitun, a ski towm). But... That's not what the article is discussing, really. The article is much more interested in Romanization of these names.

Officially, the Uyghur name shares equal right as the Chinese one, however, sometimes the Uyghur Romanization is a pain in the ass to pronounce while the Chinese one is far easier (Ürümqi vs. Wulumuqi). This is as true in Xizang as it is in Xinjiang (the name བོད་ is still used to refer to Xizang by official Chinese standards, but that doesn't phonetically map to Tibet). Of course, people are forgetting that English is neither the first nor second most common language in Xinjiang... In fact, given the number of ethnic minorities I doubt it's even on the list. The English name is selected for convenience rather than anything else because nobody except Western tourists will ever use it.

There's an interesting debate happening today in Canada as to whether this Romanization makes sense: while First Nations names like Squamish and Tsawwassen have been Romanized and are used colloquially, First Nations groups oppose Romanization because of its association with colonialism and instead would prefer names like "šxʷƛ̓ənəq Xwtl'e7énḵ". The question is, which do you keep as the English public-facing name?

Of course, this is coming from the same The Guardian that reported that "the last major mosque in China lost its domes and minarets" when the Afaq Khoja and Id Kah exist and are widely known as holy sites in Uyghur Islam. The Guardian's reporting on China has consistently been sloppy because they don't have a correspondent in Xinjiang and their editorial teams don't speak Chinese or Uyghur.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

Curious to see a deep and detailed explanation of current events get a moderate mix of love and hate, but a generic "lemmy.ml is pro-genocide" post get universal love.

Almost like folks are more interested in Lemmy internal politics than world events.

[-] nekandro@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 weeks ago

Nobody commenting on this has ever visited Xinjiang. Nobody writing these articles has ever visited Xinjiang. Can you blame people for listening to the media they have access to?

There's a funny thing about the notion of media literacy in China vs. the US: in China, media literacy is mostly "what is the media not telling me?" while in the US, media literacy is mostly "which media source is telling me the right thing?"

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world -1 points 3 weeks ago

Nobody commenting on this has ever visited Xinjiang. Nobody writing these articles has ever visited Xinjiang.

It's funny, because you absolutely can get first-person accounts of journalists visiting Xinjiang. And you can get information directly out of social media published in and around Xinjiang, particularly if you're fluent in their native languages. But sending journalists to China is expensive and travel logs from these regions don't make for explosive click-bait articles.

in China, media literacy is mostly “what is the media not telling me?” while in the US, media literacy is mostly “which media source is telling me the right thing?”

The privatization of US media means you can pay someone to tell you whatever you like. So you can get your own heavily polarized view of world events to reinforce your biases and cement your neuroses. But if we're talking reliability? Idk, man. Is CNN really more reliable than FOX or MSNBC because its "centrist" or does it just have a different set of sponsors?

The Chinese state media gives you the party line, which is fixated on whatever the Chinese state government considers the highest priority. Chinese social media is still rife with rumor and innuendo and agitprop. Its just not as slickly delivered or authoritatively presented as American corporate sponsored infotainment. Harder to sell people on Migrant Fentayl Caravan Killed 50 Israeli Babies when its just some Fwds From Grandma email, rather than a baby-faced news anchor delivering it on a professional set.

These institutions have two very different goals. Chinese media exists to sooth, while American media exists to agitate. But the theory that one of them tells only truths and the other tells only lies hinges on the theory that any of them have a vested interest in doing real journalism.

this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2024
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