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Hamas tells Gaza City residents to stay put after Israel orders evacuation
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2023
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Who the hell is still defending Israel after this declaration to eradicate Palestinians in Gaza?
if your government invade and kill civilians in any country that have a strong army you gonna have a bad time. how do you think Canada would answer this?
and the USA? the Germans?
Imagine a country has blockaded all of your borders. No one can leave, your power plants cant import fuel, not even humanitarian aid is allowed in, and people are dying as a result. You want them to just wait for a slow death?
this shitty false dichotomy again, the options aren't just dying or murdering civilians, but I would rather just die than murder random civilians in a party anyway
Its not a choice between the two, people were already dying. How do you stop them from dying?
I don't think there is a good answer for that, but someone will have to take hamas down. I don't blame the Palestine people for not dying trying to take them down, and I don't blame Israel for doing it either.
On what they should do about Israel, almost any kind of protest you can imagine would give better results than the shit hamas is doing.
They could throw poo on baloons on Israel direction. They could invade dressed weirdly and throwing pies or water on the face of Israelis. Anything that would make them annoyed, think on the problem, and that had the chance of bringing people to their side instead inviting a war they won't win.
Hamas isn't there to solve the problem. They knew from the start what reaction it would cause and that it wouldn't improve palestinian lives or piece. They wanted to make things worse to keep relevant for the people that want war
I'm not sure it is reasonable to "defend" either side at this point. There are radical and moderate, innocent and guilty, peaceful and violent, reasonable and unreasonable people in both Palestine and Israel, and peace proposals have been made and rejected many times. I doubt many people outside of the situation have unlimited support for either side since both sides have committed atrocities.
I would guess that most observers realize that decades of alternating peace and war in Israel have shown that no lasting peace is possible until one side leaves.
After watching this conflict for 40 years, I have empathy fatigue. I don't really care who wins anymore, but this region has been a powder keg for too long. I also don't care whose "fault" it is anymore. All parties have to leave that behind and get to practical solutions. 75 years of unresolved active conflict is just too long.
Israel is too powerful. It will not be moved or defeated, and another all-out war by another coalition of Arab states will hurt the Palestinians as much as the Israelis. Nor will Israel ever allow the "right-of-return" of millions of Palestinians to Israel proper because then the Jews would be demographically overwhelmed. Therefore, the most practical, peaceful and humane, if not the most just or fair, solution is for most Palestinians to be properly re-settled outside of Israel, far from the Israeli border, where they can start new lives.
I think your sentiment is specifically against arabs. Would you be suggesting people like ukrainians to abandon their country to end the war that another, larger country started?
I love how so many people think the answer to the displaced Palestinians issue, is to evict every Israeli out of the middle East and displace a whole new generation of people. Coexistence is the only path forward but it isn't going to happen with natanyahu and Hamas in charge. The young people need to be given charge of their future
Boy that sure is a lot of words being put in my mouth
No, it has nothing to do with my having a preference for Jews over Arabs, or Ukrainians over Russians, for that matter. If Ukraine and Russia are still fighting and disrupting the region after 75 years, I would say the same thing. In fact, it is sad to say, but most experts think that Ukraine will probably have to trade away some territory for peace. My point is that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been going on for 75 years and won't be settled peacefully as long as Israelis and Palestinians occupy the same land, so some other solution is necessary.
I assume the same applies to the country Russia invades after Ukraine surrenders, like ukraine is after Crimea. And to the next region israel seeks to expand into for Zionism after palestinians are gone.
We are talking along different tracks. Creating the state of Israel in Palestine was obviously a huge mistake, and booting out the Palestinians is certainly unjust. We agree. But now what? People can wish for a more just solution, but 75 years of unresolved conflict and suffering in Israel suggests that less-than-ideal solutions should be considered.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe THIS TIME Israel and Palestine will figure out how to make a lasting peace. But I doubt it.
On their own? Of course not. It's a lesson we've learned before, aggressor states have to be addressed internationally. But currently, the aggressor state is the one being supported internationally. I dont think the people of Israel are like Russia, I think even just pausing aid on the condition that they stop the occupation of Palestinian territory would get them on board. Theyve created a humanitarian nightmare that needs addressing, that can be addressed with international help.
I don't think Israel is an aggressor state at all. Don't forget that Israel has withdrawn from Palestinian territory before, and the result is always more attacks. That's also why Israel still occupies the Golan Heights. Israel has always said that it will trade occupied territory for security guarantees, which no one can give as long as Hamas and Hezbollah are in charge and singularly bent on the destruction of Israel.
But, here we are, going down the same old tired narrative. All of this has been said and tried for decades. It's a frustrating quagmire for a reason. It's time for realpolitik, not another ideological crusade to gain justice for the Palestinian people. The Palestinians need to move on and be supported by the international community to do so. I know that isn't satisfying or fair, but I don't think that a good solution exists.
They should move on without food, water, or power?
Israel is blockading any humanitarian support for Gaza.
So.. In this case, Hamas is Russia and Israel is Ukraine. Hamas is the one who started the latest attack.
That wasnt the beginning of anything, this has been going on for a long time. The latest attacks have been in response to the humanitarian crisis Gaza has been experiencing from Israels blockade of Gazas border, and military occupation within the country. Israel is trying to eliminate Gaza.
People who think that eradication of Israel is worse.