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submitted 3 months ago by Billy@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/world@lemmy.world
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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 51 points 3 months ago

American right-wing media Freedom New TV (FNTV) and according to several videos of the rally published by the organizers on the social networks.

Meaning that we could be talking about one or two flags shown through a distorted media lens.

That said, it should be on the demonstrators to ensure people waving such flags get put at the margins and I hope that is what is happening.

[-] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 23 points 3 months ago

I think that any coverage should simply ask organizers to comment.

This is such a propaganda tactic: no one can stop someone from showing up with any flag they want. If the organizers embrace it? Then the criticism is fair game.

But if they say something like 'out of thousands of protesters who share our demand for peace, several brought inflammatory messages that don't represent us', then media has a duty to report that.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 13 points 3 months ago

Organizers are rarely asked to comment by the media during these protests.

The latest Some More News talked about that a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgN3gO0_LLU

[-] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 5 points 3 months ago

Oh, that's cool! I'm excited to check this out. I like their content. I don't love it enough to keep up with it (especially because they're a little long) but I'm interested to hear their take.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

It's an especially good episode in my opinion.

[-] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 1 points 3 months ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

https://www.piped.video/watch?v=XgN3gO0_LLU

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

[-] Iceblade02@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

That's usually the argument leveraged against platforms that don't fold to demands to deplatform individuals with reprehensible views.

The good old "You're either with us or against us" spiel is excellent at destroying any nuance.

[-] OccamsRazer@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago

This is the standard that was applied when a few nazi flags showed up at convoy rallies. You either need to reclaim the cause for your protest, or admit that it actually stands for something else and then ask yourself if you want to be part of that.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

Did the convoy involve a genocide?

[-] OccamsRazer@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

No, but I'm also not sure where you are going with that question. I suppose hezbollah flags directly have something to do with the Palestine protests, whereas nazi flags didn't really have anything to do with the convoy, so maybe it's more understandable to have hezbollah/hamas flags there. But they are still terrorists, right? Or are we OK with them now? I'm just not sure what you mean.

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[-] SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 36 points 3 months ago

"A couple of dudes amongst widespread protests across the country have done one reprehensible thing. This means the whole protest is illegitimate. Stop complaining about genocide and go back to work."

[-] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 11 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Do other people at the protest say "hey buddy, that's not what we're about"?

Or do they look the other way?

There have been movements in the past where a minority of the movement was antisemitic while the majority of the movement just looked the other way on the antisemitism from the others. It didn't go well for anyone.

The paradox of tolerance. If you tolerate the intolerant in your movement, you're part of an intolerant movement.

[-] mysticpickle@lemmy.ca 9 points 3 months ago

Waving terrorist flags in New York City is a good idea hyuk hyuk :>

[-] blahsay@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

Pro Palestinian march...waving hamas flags? Sounds like you're pro hamas really.

[-] TheFriar@lemm.ee 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

The two people waving the two flags? Yeah, seems like it. But you’re painting a whole march based on two people. Which seems super disingenuous and shitty. Which is exactly what this outlet is doing here.

[-] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 months ago

If one person shows up to a Trump rally with a nazi flag you'd likely be calling the whole group nazis.

[-] blahsay@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

Yep pretty much. If they let it stay up definitely.

[-] TheFriar@lemm.ee 1 points 3 months ago

You don’t know me.

But, there is a marked difference between the root causes of these two instances. Though they both stem from similar places. On the far right, you have a media machine that has, for 30+ years, used dogwhistles that basically Pavlov an entire group of people (roughly half the US voting population) into salivating for racism. When the mask came off, they over salivated and moved so far right that they took up the mantle of one of the worst movements in human history. It was a conditioning, built on impulses already present in the population that was susceptible to that conditioning, that needed—like an addiction—to be redoubled and made more acute as time wore on. And there is a serious problem with far right views being made mainstream. Even if they don’t fly a swastika on a flag, that fascist, bigoted mentality is pervasive on the right. It doesn’t have to wear a tiny mustache and an armband to be Nazi.

As for the people on the left, yes, there has also been a long-standing conditioning, but less acute and more just the temperature of the water we’ve all been swimming in. That being antisemitism. So much antisemitism is baked into our culture, a lot like general racism. And yes, some people on the left were pushing it, but not in the same way.

The more overt cause of this phenomenon is online culture and the need to be “more just” or “more [blank],” the blank being whatever issue is being discussed, people want to be more right about it. More extreme, more the movement being a part of these peoples identity. So you get one-upsmanship that shows itself by people embracing ideas that aren’t that great because they want to be more passionate about the issue at hand.

Not to mention, the nuance of hamas being sort of painted as freedom fighters against a genocidal force. Because, in some respect, they are that. They are what’s attempting to stand between the Israeli government and the people of Palestine. But, in reality, they are a far right fundamentalist organization that doesn’t have the Palestinian people’s best interest at heart. They’re largely unelected, undemocratic, bigots.

But there is no room for nuance on a flag. There’s no room for nuance on a protest sign. There is only room for the most basic of messages, and when you couple that with the aforementioned identity issues involved in politics these days, then you have a recipe for idiots misunderstanding what’s good with what’s more “unique” or more of an extreme statement.

So, in short, comparing the two is disingenuous at best.

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this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2024
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