view the rest of the comments
Lemmy Shitpost
Welcome to Lemmy Shitpost. Here you can shitpost to your hearts content.
Anything and everything goes. Memes, Jokes, Vents and Banter. Though we still have to comply with lemmy.world instance rules. So behave!
Rules:
1. Be Respectful
Refrain from using harmful language pertaining to a protected characteristic: e.g. race, gender, sexuality, disability or religion.
Refrain from being argumentative when responding or commenting to posts/replies. Personal attacks are not welcome here.
...
2. No Illegal Content
Content that violates the law. Any post/comment found to be in breach of common law will be removed and given to the authorities if required.
That means:
-No promoting violence/threats against any individuals
-No CSA content or Revenge Porn
-No sharing private/personal information (Doxxing)
...
3. No Spam
Posting the same post, no matter the intent is against the rules.
-If you have posted content, please refrain from re-posting said content within this community.
-Do not spam posts with intent to harass, annoy, bully, advertise, scam or harm this community.
-No posting Scams/Advertisements/Phishing Links/IP Grabbers
-No Bots, Bots will be banned from the community.
...
4. No Porn/Explicit
Content
-Do not post explicit content. Lemmy.World is not the instance for NSFW content.
-Do not post Gore or Shock Content.
...
5. No Enciting Harassment,
Brigading, Doxxing or Witch Hunts
-Do not Brigade other Communities
-No calls to action against other communities/users within Lemmy or outside of Lemmy.
-No Witch Hunts against users/communities.
-No content that harasses members within or outside of the community.
...
6. NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.
-Content that is NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.
-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.
...
If you see content that is a breach of the rules, please flag and report the comment and a moderator will take action where they can.
Also check out:
Partnered Communities:
1.Memes
10.LinuxMemes (Linux themed memes)
Reach out to
All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules. Striker
That's because it wasn't meant to be a debate, it was meant to illustrate a point.
People who didn't get it and people who did get it but didn't like it (i.e. misogynists) turned it into a debate. The latter also proved that point with the large number of rape and death threats.
Yeah, god forbid people get angry when others make sexist remarks! They must be real misogynists for not liking sexism!
If you replaced the "man" with "black man" or "black person", or if someone said this with immigrants, it wouldn't need to be explained to you or anyone why this is a pretty fucked up thing to say, but for some reason when it's just "man" it's okay and anyone who disagrees is a misogynist, according to you. If I made a general frustrated remark about women, plenty of people would take issue with it, and I don't think you'd would be saying "it wasn’t meant to be a debate, it was meant to illustrate a point", would you?
How about just stop using sexist rhetoric? There are a lot of people on your side who would agree with you if you just dropped the needlessly sexist and divisive rhetoric.
And before you get there - and if not you then I'm sure someone will think of saying it - yes, it's true that the world and system we live in isn't as hostile to men as women, but progressive spaces definitely tend to be the opposite. And believe it or not, that actually has an effect with pushing younger men into the arms of the alt right; you can insult them and just call them fascists if you like, but that doesn't change the reality that young hormonal men going into progressive spaces and seeing this kind of rhetoric will feel excluded, pushed out, and like the world is against them.
See above re: people didn't get it.
By the way, what is "my side" and what would they agree with me about?
Gr8 argument m8!
Should be pretty clear if you actually bothered to read it, but I'll spell it out for you: P-R-O-G-R-E-S-S-I-V-E-S; and overall people who acknowledge the experiences of women that this is supposed to highlight. And I am also on that side, I just think you're doing an absolute shit job of it, being needlessly discriminating, and creating division - as I already explained.
Okay, how would you illustrate this that wouldn't cause a huge amount of controversy and misogyny?
By just highlighting the experiences of women in the society we live in, and all the sexual violence they fall victims to, and how much violence is specifically directed at women - without resorting to cheap inflammatory "memes" (*). And as another way to a solution, we can also just try to be and create good role models for young men.
(*)And saying that has actually reminded me, that's usually exactly how the far right likes to act and spread their message too: inflammatory rhetoric that can make a catchy sound bite that will reach a lot of people, but which has no real depth to it. I'd rather not those tactics and actually try having real conversations.
You should look into the origin of the word meme. It's not terribly old and you clearly don't understand it. You've also gone and thrown away your benefit of the doubt by arguing semantics on what's clearly meant to be a lighthearted and hyperbolic comparison. Propping up random ideas and putting them, as words, in someone else's mouth is dumb as hell. Pretty sure there's hundreds of places online where you can argue with other people who don't know the difference between socratic and aristotelean logic.
You managed to say a lot without really saying anything. And when did I argue semantics or put words in someone's mouth?
I'm not gonna go through this entire conversation again, so I'll just link you my last comment which should sum up my thoughts relatively well.
Dumbass lmao
Ok 👍 😘
You think that doesn't result in threats of violence and rape too? Really?
What are you talking about? When did I even say anything like that? Of course they will still get threats, the point is what is the best way to move forward, raise attention to these issues to bring about a better society, instead of making the situation worse, which is what I think your behavior does.
I'm really not sure if you're even engaging in good faith and I'm not gonna spend all day on this, so this will be the final thing I'll say:
I think that meme is unnecessarily divisive and will cause the average man (at least young man/teenager) who stumbles into it to feel attacked, and even more so when accused of either "not getting it" or "being a misogynist"; and in a time when they are just a couple clicks away of falling into and alt-right pipeline that will acknowledge their feelings and tell them the left/progressives have it out for them, it's really unproductive to use rhetoric like that, which can make them feel "othered" and part of an out group.
I'm sorry, but if a "debate" like this is all it takes to turn someone into a redpilled incel, they were going to become one anyway and we have much bigger problems.
The fact is that women get attacked just existing in an online space and a scary amount of men feel threatened any time a woman speaks up for herself. Because that's patriarchy. When the power structure is threatened in any way, No matter what example a woman gives, no matter how hard she attempts to not be divisive, there are still a bunch of men who feel threatened by her suggesting that any man may possibly pose a threat to a woman because they take it personally.
And they will feel 'othered' because the patriarchy has raised them to believe they are the superior humans because of their gender and any suggestion that some men may do the wrong thing where women are concerned is an explicit threat to them personally. And the whole point of this is that a woman doesn't know whether the strange man she encounters in the woods will do the wrong thing. There's just no way to know whether or not a man will assault her. People can claim that's true about strange women as well, but, again, that's missing the whole fucking point. Again, though, the point will be missed no matter how diplomatically it is put because it challenges the patriarchy.
Okay, this comment was the best so far and actually seemed to care to make a point/converse, so I'll make just one final reply.
Your first sentence might be true for older men, or men who are already "allies" to put it simply, but it's simply not true for younger men, and again it's also just unhelpful and pushes people away. Overall, it makes you sound like you care more about being angry and being right, than actually helping to make society better. Not that I don't understand that feeling by the way, I'm just saying it's unhelpful and not constructive.
And yeah, off course there will always be some men who will feel threatened anyway when people raise the issue, but the question is how many feel threatened and "othered" in one situation versus in the other situation. I mean, I'd hate to fall from a ladder, but I'd rather fall from a short ladder than a tall one; does that make sense? I'd rather you go with the option that will push less young men into the arms of people like Andrew Tate, rather than the one that will push the most just because you're angry and want to make your point in the most brutish way possible.
They feel "othered" because the meme is inherently sexist, and if they complain they get called sexist. Again, imagine if instead of "men" this is talking about a marginalized group and the problem becomes explicit. Just because men are not a marginalized group in society, does not mean that the same feelings are not evoked in them when confronted with such rhetoric.
You make a lot of good points, but where I am stuck on is the idea of blaming these videos (especially the initial ones, not all the reactions) for people falling off that ladder and becoming an incel. That takes years of grooming and if they were at that point, something was going to push them over sooner or later.
Also, maybe it is sexist for all of those women to find strange men more threatening, but it doesn't change the fact that a large number of women do feel that way and maybe it should be explored why instead of criticizing them for it.
I think what bothered most men wasn't that he was large, but that a woman would feel safer with any gay man that was with them.
I'm bi and only chubby... Where do I fall in this?
I do like being punched in the face...
I mean, as a dude, I damn sure would feel safest around lesbians if I was worried about that.
Idk what like the girl animal “equivalent” of a bear would be, except one that I am not quite sure if it is offensive or not.
Fucking queer is super accepted now, but then I watch my daughter, who has dated women before, and is not shy or ashamed, and I do believe is still fine with doing so in the future, call her brother or someone on YouTube gay as an insult.
I'm bi and call stuff I don't like 'gay' all the time. I also call stuff I like 'gay'. I don't think that the use of a term by those it applies to can really be negative as its more of an empowerment thing abt takibg the word back for the community. It's like getting mad at people that call each other the n-word (especially if you aren't black yourself).
The current "equivalent" I've seen is would you rather share your emotions with a tree or a woman.
A tree isn’t going to use those emotions you shared when your were feeling down against you when she gets mad that you forgot to unload the dishwasher two months later 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah, but do you know how dangerous a tree is? It will eat you alive without mercy
Nonono, we had this discussion about the snake yesterday: the tree kills you by dropping a limb on you long before it eats you.
A tree. Inanimate objects are good listeners.
Tree, but I have anxiety issues and trees don’t trigger them
Exceptional woman over average tree. Average tree over average woman. Exceptional tree? Not sure.
As a sasquatch, I'd feel safer around a gay man
I’m going to need to know what kind of sanguine you are.
ETA: added need to
I'm the sanguine kind of sanguine