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New Zealand scraps world-first smoking ‘generation ban’ to fund tax cuts
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2023
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Ex smoker here, who is very against smoking as practice. I am also against the complete ban because it makes no sense whatsoever to be for the legalization of cannabis and other drugs but to also be for banning smoking. If I support one, I cannot support the other. I support drug legalization, so I can't support a smoking ban.
Even when you consider the differences in addiction/habit forming? Do you feel the same way about morphine and heroin and their derivatives, that we should either legalize all or nothing?
It might be useful for an inbetween period, first we legalize softdrugs and ban all extremely addictive stuff, then after a year or 5 we open all the gates.
I don't even know if I'm for a complete ban but it sounded refreshing to have a smoker free generation, is such a low quality drug as well..
Marijuana at least has medicinal use though, right? I mean, it's not 100% the same.
Tobacco has some very legit medical uses.
https://www.utep.edu/herbal-safety/herbal-facts/herbal%20facts%20sheet/tobacco.html#:~:text=Tobacco%20leaves%20are%20applied%20to,the%20ear%20to%20treat%20earaches.
I'm not for banning tobacco. But as you can see, these medicinal uses are not the same as those for Marijuana, and even if they were, I wouldn't be aghast if kids stole tobacco leaves from the hospital and rolled joints with the.
I'm also not for banning tobacco. Not sure how anyone would think I am from what I said, but apparently that's the interpretation.
We all understand that. The link you provided doesn't really show a wide amount of medicinal value. Some value, sure. A lot? No.
So? I didn't claim it cured cancer, just that it had some use as opposed to no use. What do you people want?
The article only talks about cigarettes and smoking, but doesn’t say whether that includes other uses of nicotine
Same with other drug legalization - I think we’re well past the point of knowing that intentionally inhaling burnt stuff is bad, no matter what it is. I can support legalizing cannabis while trying to ban smoking anything
I don't think any recreational drugs should be branded or advertised. It should be very factual what you are getting and that's it. I think tobacco should still be available from tobacconists only, which can be state run because it's unlikely to be profitable otherwise. I'm for complete legalisation of everything but I think the smoke free generation is a great and noble idea.
It conflicts but I'm not a machine ,I see that tobacco is the most readily available addictive substance in the world, responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths and I can just thumbs up a law that removes it as an opportunity without impacting those who are addicted and don't want to quit.
Caffeine is the most readily available addictive substance in the world, I think.
It's "addictive" in the sense that you can develop tolerance, cravings, and withdrawal symptoms, but I've never heard of anyone being sent to rehab because their coffee habit was wrecking their life. Even pure caffeine just isn't potent enough to hijack your brain's reward system the way harder drugs can.
IMHO the word "addiction" really only applies when you feel so compelled to keep engaging in a problematic behavior that you can't stop even when you know it's hurting you.
Wine snobs, beer snobs, whisky snobs, and weed snobs would really hate that. And sommeliers would be having panic attacks.
Well all those snobs are suckers for marketing, it's the process they are enjoying the fruits of not the label.
But I'd envision a world where you could buy cocaine and just have a list of the ingredients and strength, I don't need Johnny Walker White to be pushing it. Just have it available if people want it.
Are you really gonna argue that all whiskies, wines, etc. taste alike and that anyone who says otherwise is just a sucker? I don't even like wine but I can tell a red from a white with almost 100% accuracy.
Actually if you go with the original statement that drugs should just be generically labeled, it's saying all beer, wine, and liquor should just be labeled "alcohol". Can you imagine someone going to a fancy Italian restaurant and being happy when the only thing on the wine list is just "alcohol"?
That's not what I argued at all but your point about a fancy restaurant misses the point twice.
I'm saying it's not the label it is the process, it isn't red or white by some company, it's the grape in a cask for how long. It's not alcohol it's the right combination of water, hops and wheat brewed the right way. I'm saying that we shouldn't have Philip Morris Nose Candy when we legalise we should have no branding no advertising "80% cocaine" and a list of what it is cut with.
You clearly don't know shit about how alcohol is made if you think describing a process that might be virtually identical across dozens or hundreds of brands is adequate to convey the level of detail that consumers use to make purchasing decisions.
For a lot of brands, the process is blending other products to create a specific flavor profile. There is literally no process to describe beyond "the blenders combine things until they find a blend that tastes the way brand X is supposed to taste." How do you propose to describe such a process without brands? And no, they can't just describe the individual inputs, because things like wine naturally vary from year to year even with identical processes, which means blends need to use different ratios to get the same flavor for each batch.
I was specifically talking about illicit recreational drugs you've clearly steered the conversation in a direction where you feel comfortable being indignant. Alcohol being rolled back to that level is not an option in reality, for drugs it is.
I don't acknowledge a distinction between alcohol and "drugs", aside from a purely legal and historical one. "Recreational drugs" absolutely includes alcohol in my vocabulary.
Also, is it just cigarettes or also cigars and pipe tobacco? I know people that, after the 'flavored cigarette' ban here, switched to flavored cigarillos or whatever. Just moved someone to a worse product.