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this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2023
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I just want to respectfully remind everyone that just because this tragedy was likely not perpetrated by Israel, it does not mean they are absolved of any of the hundreds of war crimes they have already committed.
Just because they did a lot of bad things doesn't mean that you can blatantly lie about killing 500 civilians and then get away with it. Can Israel lie about Hamas beheading 500 babies? And when they do, are you going to accept the narrative of well even if they didn't do it, they did a lot of bad things? Don't think so.
I get why you're saying that, but that doesn't help anyone.
I mean, Isreal bombed that same hospital 2 days earlier, was conducting bombing campaigns in the area, ordered the evacuation of the hospital less than 24 hours before, and kept changing their story around it. It was a pretty fair assumption that it was them until more evidence was produced.
Could you please provide a source on the bombing of the same hospital 2 days earlier by Israel?
Better sources as promised:
Photos: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0JJ1N8RvGrj5uaPG5UMpLGGagUnDsDNozTXS66YsD3WMP5TDCygo5s6DmcL9u1gV1l&id=1044285492
NY Times (mentioned towards the end of the article): https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/18/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-explained.html
NPR (midway): https://www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206795861/heres-the-available-evidence-of-what-happened-at-al-ahli-arab-hospital-in-gaza
https://www.anglicannews.org/news/2023/10/anglican-run-al-ahli-arab-hospital-in-gaza-damaged-by-israeli-rocket-fire-as-conflict-continues.aspx
Sorry for the weird source, I grabbed it from Wikipedia. I could try to find something more reputable later today. It's hard to find sources on every specific bombing, as they've dropped many thousands in the past week.
Edit: This is anglicannews because the Anglican Church runs the hospital, so this is actually about as direct a source as we're gonna get. (I see that part in the headline now, I was tired when I found this earlier)
Israel was asking every place that had civilians in the north, including this hospital, to evacuate them south. Which itself is highly problematic, but the warnings were not specific to this hospital.
They specifically asked for hospitals to be evacuated in addition to the general evacuation order
You know multiple groups of people can be wrong at the same time right
You know that is exactly what I'm saying, right?
Are both of you people even capable of saying anything which isn't a question GOD-DAMN
They killed multiple journalists earlier this week and killed at least 6 in a strike on a school and this hospital debacle has drowned all of that out.
Can we hold hamas (and palestine for giving them a holdout) for their war crimes, or is your logic only one-way?
No, people here are incapable of thinking in anything other than black-and-white
You speak the truth, even if it was meant to be sarcastic.
Yeah, because condemning one side means you cant condemn the other...
This is why I asked haha
Yeah, is there any place in southern Gaza that isn't packed full of the people they told to move there from the north for 'safety'?
You rather they stay on top of the Hamas terror tunnels Israel is targeting? Hamas would like that.
The goal of palestinian nationalists is literally the same thing with the roles reversed. I fail to see a difference apart from the fact that Israel is stronger and we're more critical towards it since it's a democracy and should know better.
Palestinians are brutalized on a daily basis. Their land was stolen after WW2 then slowly usurped and terrorized while the world kept funding Israel. That was originally palestinian land, and there were even jewish communities in that palestinian land. Now it is an ethnostate that lets new yorkers take some guy's ancestral home because he's of the correct ethnic category.
e: it's quite strange to have to explain to people why a genocide, ethnic cleansing, and apartheid is bad.
Palestine as a country has never existed and Jews have as much of a historical claim to the regions as Palestinians do.
So for you, a millennia of history, distinct cultures, and dialect are meaningless. People who migrated and forcibly colonized in 1948, with no connection to the region or land have as much of a claim to it as an ethnicity who has lived there for centuries.
So if that's your argument do you just believe that israel has the right to go on a conquest and slaughter palestine? Genuine question.
Have you never heard of middle eastern Jews? Genuine question
of course, I even said there were Jews that lived in palestine before annexation. one is a ethnicity and the other is a religion, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.
even if i follow your train of thought, jewish palestinians existed so they have the right to create an ethnostate?
Because both Palestinians and Jews existed in Canaan. Both have equal claim to territory, which is why a two state solution is the only solution.
I don't believe my comment indicated that. I simply don't believe that Palestine has the right to go on a conquest and slaughter Israel either.
There are things that Israel did that I strongly disagree with, in recent history most of them are connected to West bank settlements. There are more things that I disagree with that Palestine did. I think that the 1948 UN proposed 2-state solution would have been more than reasonable, and it would have likely put Palestine into a much better position than it's in now, but one can't change the past. We'll see if Israel government becomes more reasonable and thinks of a more current lasting solution, but I'm not holding my breath.
Why do you think so? Jews also lived in the area, and the ones who came later afaik generally migrated and purchased their land legally, with the exception of migration during WW2, which was not legal, but imo pretty understandable since it was literally done by refugees running from the holocaust. People argue that it wasn't kosher since the region was under British control, but before that it was under the control of Osmans and before that the region was afaik under control of someone who conquered it for most of its history. It has never been a country.
Obviously this doesn't give Israel a claim over the whole region, but I don't think they have any less of a right for existence than Palestine.