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[-] apollo440@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Yes, but it also kinda depends on what happens at and after junction 34, from which point on more than the entire population of earth is at stake.

If anything, this shows how ludicrously fast exponentials grow. At the start of the line it seems like there will be so many decisions to be made down the line, so there must be a psycho in there somewhere, right? But (assuming the game just ends after junction 34) you're actually just one of 34 people, and the chance of getting a psycho are virtually 0.

Very interesting one!

[-] apollo440@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If I owe you money, and somebody else owes me money, yea of course you would sue me, not that other person. But I could write over some of the debt I'm owed to you to clear my debt to you.

And isn't this exactly how debt enforcement works? You win in court and the court tells the bank (or forces me to tell the bank) to take x amount out of my account and put it into your account. The debt I was owed gets transferred to you, which clears my debt to you.

[-] apollo440@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The transaction is "I give the bank money, and they have to give it back later". How can we arrange that legally without transferring ownership? I only know these ways:

Bailment: That would mean the bank keeps the physical bills (or other valuables) in a proverbial or literal safe with my name on it, to return the exact same items later. Of course banks offer that service, but that's not what we're talking about.

Trust: The bank takes my money and invests it on my behalf. It does not go on the bank's books, and they cannot use my money for their own purposes (e.g. as security for loans, to fulfil capital requirements, invest it themselves and keep the proceeds, etc.). This is obviously not the case.

Agency: The bank takes my money and executes transactions on my behalf, according to my orders. Again, obviously not the case.

Am I missing something? Is there some special law for bank accounts? I'm genuinely interested.

[-] apollo440@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I wonder what other arrangement it could even possibly constitute.

Bailment? That would mean physically locking the bills that you deposit in a safe that you rent, which is possible I guess, but not what we're talking about here.

Trust? This would mean the deposit does not go on the bank's books, and they cannot use it for their own purposes. This is clearly not the case, at the very least since investment banks and savings banks were merged.

Agency? That would mean the bank uses your money to enact transactions on your behalf, again, clearly not the case.

That leaves the only other form of "I give you money and you give it back later", namely debt.

[-] apollo440@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

It's certainly how banks work where I live, and presuming we are talking about the US here, I did a quick skim through the first few results on google and there mostly seems to be agreement that it is a debtor/creditor relationship.

How would you describe the legal arrangements of a bank account then?

[-] apollo440@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Well I'm interested now. It certainly is the case where I live, and presuming we are talking about the US here, I did a quick skim through the first few results on google and they seem to agree that it's a debtor/creditor relationship.

How else would you describe the legal arrangements of a bank account then?

[-] apollo440@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

More than 90% of the money we use does not come from the central banks, i.e. does not exist as cash and is not backed by the government directly. Instead it is book money. Here is how this works:

When a bank lends you $1000 at 10% interest for a year, they don't physically have that money. Instead, they write into your account: We owe you $1000. They also write into their account: Skaterboy42069 owes us $1100.

See how the $1000 you have in your account just appeared out of nowhere? They are of course balanced by the bank's $1000, but there is an extra $100 (the interest) that was created permanently. It's up to you to come up with a way of making those extra $100 in one year. Now apply that to the entire monetary system and the whole economy, and you see how the only way is up.

As an aside: This is also precisely the reason why we need ~2% GDP growth annually, and any standstill or even shrinking is an absolute disaster. Debts don't get repaid and are defaulted on, and money literally evaporates. Ask yourself this: imagine GDP drops 10% over night and what that would do to the economy. Why would that be such a disaster if it would simply send us back to about 2018 GDP-wise (when we all lived in caves)?

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apollo440

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