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[-] TWeaK@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

Piracy explicitly is not stealing. Theft requires denying the owner of the ability to use the thing that is stolen. Copyright infringement does not meet this bar, and is not a crime in the vast majority of cases. Commercial copyright infringement is the only offense classed as a crime, which in a nutshell is piracy for profit ie selling pirated material.

[-] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

Piracy explicitly is not stealing.

Piracy is attacking ships at sea and is usually done in order to rob them.

[-] egonallanon@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

This is why you get a letter of marque to give you legitimacy. I've been letioning my government for one endlessly so I can attack Russian shipping in the balkans.

[-] immibis@social.immibis.com 1 points 1 year ago

Piracy is best compared to riding a bus without a ticket.

[-] Narrrz@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago

that's an interesting definition, and one that appeals to me especially as a fan of "harmless" theft (taking something that the owner will never notice is gone, nor be inconvenienced by the lack of)

[-] TWeaK@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

It's literally the legal definition. Copyright infringement has never been theft. Media companies have been trying to change the definition of theft, though.

It used to never be a crime, only a civil offense. This means the rightsholder has to sue you, rather than the state prosecute you, but also that the burden of proof is "the balance of probabilities", ie whichever side tips the scale past 50/50 with their argument, rather than "beyond reasonable doubt" which is more like >99%. However in the last decade many countries have introduced "commercial copyright infringement" as a criminal offense. Off the top of my head, in the US I think the threshold for that is like $1,000 or something.

It's not about it being "harmless" but the fact that you're not taking something away from someone. If I steal your laptop and sell it, you no longer have a laptop. If I copy data, you still have your original copy.

This is also why there's a different crime for "joyriding" instead of just stealing a car. If you steal a car, you might argue that you were just taking it for a drive, and never intended to permanently deprive the owner. In that case it's easier to convict you for joyriding instead of theft.

[-] myslsl@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Regardless of the semantics of what we call theft, or whether theft requires denying somebody access to some good, there's an ethical issue with copying other people's stuff without permission. If a person breaks into another persons home and makes copies of all of the documents in their home private or otherwise, they've at least committed a crime in the form of breaking and entering. But if a person is invited into another persons home, and then without pemission copies all of the documents in the house, that still feels like a wrong act? Like, if you invite me into your house and I start copying down your personal journal, your family photos and other stuff you have lying around, to me that sounds like I'd be doing something wrong by you?

Edit: I do want to point out here that I'm not saying piracy is inherently wrong/bad or never justified.

[-] TWeaK@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

Sure, but breaking and entering is a crime - just like theft. Copying someone's documents is wrong, but it's not a crime (not unless you commit a crime with those documents, eg fraudulently take out credit). In that case, it's a civil offense against the victim - just like copyright infringement.

Crimes are prosecuted by the government. To be convicted of a crime you have to be proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt - in other words, it's more than 99% likely you did it.

Civil offenses are prosecuted by the victim. The burden of proof is "the balance of probabilities", ie it's more than 50% likely you did it. The victim must also show actual damages.

In the US, media companies have perverted the law around copyright infringement, and they manage to get awarded statutory damages well in excess of any actual damages they incur. This is why we had all those ridiculous Napster lawsuits where people were fined hundreds of thousands for downloading a handful of songs. In the rest of the world, they could only be awarded actual damages, and the lawsuits weren't really worth anything.

Media companies would really like copyright infringement to be theft, and they've lobbied hard for that. However they haven't managed it, not yet anyway. They did manage to establish a crime of commercial copyright infringement, though, where if you pirate a significant amount of material or do it for profit you could be criminally charged.

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[-] 001100010010@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago

Someone: Photographs pages of a book in a book store

OP: "Hello Police? Someone is stealing a book!"

[-] Batman@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago

Nicholas Cage heavily breathing about all the people simultaneously stealing the declaration of independence

[-] 001100010010@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 year ago

Brb, stealing some documents...

My evil plans are already underway. MUHAHAHAHA

[-] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago

Don't make me tap the sidebar again...

[-] cacheson@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

This meme is stealing.

[-] Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 year ago

If no one loses anything they never had in the first place it is not stealing

[-] Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 year ago

Or you could just not give a flying fuck about the moral and ethical aspects and go on with your life.

[-] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago

aside: why can't lemmy just let me expand the thumbnail without directing me to an external site

[-] AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago

To add onto that, on the Jerboa app (not sure about other apps), if I try to click on an image in a comment, it just minimizes the comment. I'd love to be able to click on pictures in comments, as well, and have the thumbnail expand.

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You can steal digital goods, but to do so you have to copy it and erase the original. Otherwise its just copying.

[-] Shere_Khan@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 year ago

That's dumb. If you are supposed to pay for something and you just take it instead, you stole it. You can argue word meanings and technicallies all day, but it's a lot easier to just be real about what we are doing here.

[-] MxM111@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

It is copyright violation, not stealing. Yes, it is damaging to the content creator, under current economic and law structure, but it is not stealing. If you burn a house belonging to the content creator, you do not call it stealing, just because it is damaging to them. So, why do you insist on calling it stealing here?

On a side note, one can incision a society where there is no copyright. In that society it would be completely lawful and “non-damaging” to copy things. Copyright is an artificial construct that we choose to have, but it does not mean that we can not rejected (we, as in the whole society, not individual)

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[-] RanchOnPancakes@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's a lot earlier when you realize that everyone else is going to treat this world like a smash and grab regardless of what you do. These companies ~~included~~ especially.

this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2023
11 points (92.3% liked)

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