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submitted 1 year ago by SeaJ@lemm.ee to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml
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[-] orizuru@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There are two imperialist blocs involved in the conflict, and it doesn’t matter which one of them technically started it.

I'm sorry, but when it involves one imperialist bloc invading a smaller country, then it does matter.

Do you have the same position regarding the Vietnam war, Palestine, Iraq, and Afghanistan? Or do you only support whichever side is not aligned with the US?

[-] trot@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I literally said that

Russian anti-war activists have a correct position.

Are you aware that it's possible to want neither NATO tanks nor Russian tanks in Ukraine?

You can even make sure you are consistent with both things in action 100% of the time - it's a neat little trick called "opposing the position of your own government".

[-] orizuru@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 year ago

Are you aware that it’s possible to want neither NATO tanks nor Russian tanks in Ukraine?

I am.

But do you believe Ukraine is able to maintain their territory protected from Russia without NATO's weapon supply?

[-] trot@hexbear.net 22 points 1 year ago

No, just as it would be unable to resist NATO in being turned into a far-right paramilitary-led banana republic if Russia were to suddenly withdraw without any decrease in NATO involvement.

But the beauty of the neat little trick above is that if the working classes of both sides correctly oppose their respective ruling classes' interests, we can end up with a scenario where both sides lose - objectively the best outcome for the Ukrainian people, as well as everyone else.

The Russian anti-war activists are clearly holding up their end of the bargain. Why are you not holding up yours?

[-] CamaradeBoina@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

Exactly this.

Revolutionary defeatism is the name of the word. Those who should be concerned with Russian imperialism must be russian working class people.

We in the west have to fight against our own imperalists. It's very simple and in the end very logical.

[-] orizuru@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago

The Russian anti-war activists are clearly holding up their end of the bargain. Why are you not holding up yours?

Ah! To be young and naive enough to believe that the anti-war activists in Russia have any leverage. They will all end up in Siberia or jumping out of a window.

Any regime change in Russia will come from the oligarchs, and the Russian working class will still be in a bad position (if not worse).

[-] trot@hexbear.net 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They did quite well in WW1.

Speaking of that, was the Entente was completely justified in sending millions to die in the war? After all, previously you said:

I'm sorry, but when it involves one imperialist bloc invading a smaller country, then it does matter.

Not even one, but two smaller countries! Think of little Belgium and Serbia!

[-] CamaradeBoina@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Someone has read Lenin hihi

(Lenin exactly refers to the Belgium question in WW1 in "Socialism and the War")

[-] Kuori@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago

To be young and naive enough to believe that the anti-war activists in Russia have any leverage

funny how shitlibs like you will gladly say stuff like this while in the very same breath talking about how russians are all evil orcs for genociding the smol bean ukranians and they need to be wiped out

also the "oh i am so worldly and wise" liberal condescension act is beyond tired. if you're so old and venerable then just fucking die already, ghoul.

[-] orizuru@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 1 year ago

also the “oh i am so worldly and wise” liberal condescension act is beyond tired. if you’re so old and venerable then just fucking die already, ghoul.

😘

[-] Kuori@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

as always, liberals care about nothing but being smug

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this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2023
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