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this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2024
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No Stupid Questions
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China most definitely has billionaires in cahoots with the government. Evergrande is a great example of this. Asianometry did a great video on how deep it goes with receipts.
I've had two discussions with users about the Uyghur camps which were not able to address the base of my concerns. While they are definitely very exaggerated in size, the notion that they don't exist seems unfounded. Though I'm open for discussion on it.
Imperialism is when billionaires. The more billionaires you have the imperialister it is
Also https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/
Sounds like you were concern trolling, because the burden of proof is on the accuser
Your statement about China not having a financialist capital class seemed slightly out of touch so I provided you with examples of some Chinese capital class. Communism is when not billionaires. The more Billionaires you have to less communism it is.
As for the imperialism I only hear the same argument as for Western imperialism: someone drew lines on a map 200 years ago and it said Xinjiang and Tibet were part of China. So despite them speaking a different language it's now 100% ours for rizzle.
Read more theory otherwise you sound like a kid like you do now.
I read a bit of the link and it was mostly mid mumbling that mentioned faults of China and then moved on as if addressing them solves them.
Then it proceeded to misdiagnose what greed is and pretend capitalism is a system designed around greed instead of greed being innate to humans.
Then I stopped because it doesn't answer any of the questions.
I'm not saying everything China does is bad, certainly to grow as superpower when the West tries to overthrow all competition is massive achievement. But people are all too willing to deny faults of China.
I seems you have no clue what the difference between an industrial capitalist and a finacial capitalist is, because you provided not a example of finacial capitalists existing. You just showed me an example of a industrial/realestate capitalist eating shit. Not so much in cahoots after all then ,right? Not like the CPC declared the "3 red lines" in order to mitigate the bubble forming, not like there's a 95% homeowner ship rate in china already and it's just speculators eating shit, not like Asianometry is a very informed lib viewing the deliberate crash from a liberal perspective, right?
China's banks are nationalized. When was theast time you heare about Jack Ma, who wanted to ascend to be a financial capitalist by circumventing finance laws with ANT pay?
See, what the CPC is doing is not communism. It's market socialism, or SWCC to be more accurate, which is not without it's contradictions. Communism cannot exist when Capitalism and Imperialism exists.
When you write stuff like:
Muh human nature
Or
I know for a fact you haven't read theory and don't want to be talking to you until you haven't done your homework.
Arguing on semantics is a liberals game. Anyway the last user claimed China was definitely not cracking down on Xinjiang so I linked him this damning compilation.
Haven't heard from him since.
Unless you're going to claim cultural Genocide is fine when China does it because they call their imperialism differently I don't really care for the argument.
Semantics are important with words like "imperialism", "capitalism" and other isms.
Xinjiang has 1 mosque per ~500 Muslims and one of the highest densities with 25k mosques total
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_China
Your (western) article makes an "analysis of 2,312 mosques once featuring Islamic architecture shows that three-quarters have been modified or destroyed since 2018."
Which 1) is not that many compares to the total amount. 2) Has an interest in focussing on "modified" (i.e. renovated) and destroyed ones to make the 3/4 figure 3) apparently has access to that data, but refuses to list the total amount of destroyed ones.
Also cultural genocide is when Uyghur is an official languages and also used publicly everywhere. Cultural genocide is when you can freely practice your religion everywhere. Cultural genocide is when all Muslim majority visited the region and had no complaints. Apparently genocide on Muslims is not happening in Palestine (said by the same voices that do say it's happening in China)
You might want to consider the context a bit (also with western sources): https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang
Cultural Genocide is not equal to full on literal israel style delete everyone you don't like. It is more similar to the French colonialism in Algeria (see imperialism) and their attempt to assimilate their subjects afterwards. Gradually ereasing a culture to 'enlighten' the population with le epic atheism.
Altering appearances of mosques to make them appear Chinese is an incredibly visually obvious step to slow-boiling the frog.
~2022; Xi Stresses Sinicization and Regulation of Religious Activities
And if you don't know what "Marxist religious views" means I recommend the document you linked earlier it was quite evidently not too fond of religion.
Not what I was saying. I was saying that the same voices that say a "cultural genocide" is happening in China, are saying no genocide (not cultural, but the actual extermination of people) is happening in Palestine.
Or you know, altering the building in a way it doesn't crash on its worshipers i.e. renovating.
Like any fucking religion has to adhere to their host country. Basically it means if your interpretation of Islam is some radical shit where go stab random ass people you can get lost like they did with the western backed ETIM (Based)
Also you seem to have a very narrow understanding of culture. You haven't addressed even how the language and cultural practices aren't banned. Slow boiling the frog my ass
Classifying parts of religion you don't like because you have to "combat terrorism" and assimilate your colonized population... where have I heard that one before...
And making it look like a classic Chinese temple instead of an Uyghur one? Cultural preservation in full force.
Wearing a long beard? Terrorism!
I've also seen a few independent Youtubers who visited Xinjiang and were specifically told they were not allowed to fly their drones in that area contrary to the rest of China and the area was very heavily guarded. Example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHxzLogzqkU&t=2167s
Condoning radical parts of religion because forbidding them reminds of the cultural genocide that's happening at home
Imagine the headlines if left alone and the collapsing building kills a worshiper
The less radical Imam not falling into the western narrative in the video you linked to says that no religious repression is happening and denies that beards are banned. BBC provides no evidence and just points at a random ripped paper and says beards are banned because it says so there lol Instead you link me a video showing me how it even contradicts yourself. How do you like the timestamp, where the youtuber "sees 4-5 mosques just walking around the city center" and concludes "you can't say that there aren't any mosques here". Which he concludes the same thing again further down the video you posted. https://youtu.be/dHxzLogzqkU?feature=shared&t=2085
How do you not see the contradiction, that you say cultural genocide, yet you can see arabic written all over the buildings in your own provided link? Poor guy couldnt fly his drone over the mosque. Have you tried flying a drone over a synagogue in any western country?
At least read the context I provided you earlier https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang
everyone just randomly "quit because there's jobs now" that makes total sense. And everyone cut their beards too just for fun. Let's read your link and find out
This is from your link:
I believe this is the full document
Beards:
Your link wants to reference article 14 which focuses on re-education but the preceding one doesn't look great.
So to summarize, according to your link the 'comeback' to Chinese law classifying people with beards as extremists... Is not that it's not happening but that 'they will be taught the correct beliefs'.
Yes there are. The heavy military guarding around the area is what's very noteworthy. If there's a lot of dudes with guns arresting people who practice their religion that will intimidate people into not practicing it. Combine this with the knowledge of the "vocational camps" and it's pretty obvious there's something fishy going on.This is what I mean with gradual crackdown on religion.
The excuse that there's still mosques flies about as well as saying Algeria still has mosques so France didn't do cultural Genocide there. The CCP has been pretty open about wanting to crack down on religion as the Xi statement about Maxrism (also 2017 what a coincidence) suggested.
The BadEmpanada analysis video on Xinjiang was the best I have seen so far. Especially this testimony in which the "coerced acting" of China is pretty well highlighted
You have to prove cultural genocide is happening, not the ban of beards. Put your efford there.
Heavily militarized synagogues in western countries means that it's with the knowledge of "the genocide in palestine" and pretty obvious there's something fishy going on. This is what I mean with gradual crackdown on religion. Sorry I cannot take you serious here.
What's your approach on how to deal with people that go stabbing people around them and are supported by your geopolitical rival?
I'm going to take you even less serious now and choose not to continue this conversation anymore.
You were the one claiming there was no beard ban because it's a "vague piece of paper on a door",
Another argument debunked another goalpost moved.
There's multiple testimonies in the video you obviously didn't watch. Of course it also includes the visits to the concentration camps which very clearly exist and are very real.
Far too much evidence to deny there's nothing going on so a great point for you to pretend that the person which just spent time reading your worthless links is now 'not serious'.
So now I have had three conversations with people denying the Uyghur Genocide and proceeding to ditch when presented with evidence.
You haven't addressed how you can see arabic everywhere, uyghur being an official language, and that there's a shitton of mosques there and how it constitutes cultural genocide. If you culture is to stab people, then fuck your culture.
Far little context taken into account
No because if youd have looked at the "worthless" link you'd know that the primary sources BE provides are contextualized there already.
I did you even acknowledged the example of banning beards but then pretend like you weren't given evidence.
No there aren't. They are just mentioned and then waived away with some non-sequitur that only people who don't actually read it believe solves the issue.
I can confidently say you did not read or verify the material you linked because instead of denying the Genocide it just does a very poor attempt at justifying it.
I acknowledged it, by telling you to focus on proving cultural genocide in the first place. No, targeting bearded people that espouse violent Muslim interpretations of Islam in order to "correct" their beliefs to non violent interpretation does not constitute cultural genocide (even if wasnt fully informed on the targeting of ideologically violent bearded people. That maybe constituting racial profiling, but not cultural genocide)
There are like this source BE uses https://medium.com/@sunfeiyang/breaking-down-the-bbcs-visit-to-hotan-xinjiang-e284934a7aab
Nothing to deny. You haven't proved it.
Imagine unironically calling everyone with a beard a knife stabbing terrorist to justify a Genocide. You are no better than the average Zionist.
You can stop, I don't think BE will notice you