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Talking to normies about privacy:
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2024
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"But why would they care about MY data, I don't do anything special"
Anyone outside of tech when I even passingly mention privacy
“Yea my bank information, passwords, personal identity, identity of all my loved ones. But hey, if you hate having security and love being blackmailed and hate everyone who you have ever made contact in your life and wish to make their life hell then you do you and stay far the fuck away from me. We don’t know each other and we never will”
There was some segment somewhere about the fact that the NSA has all your nudes.
And then you always get that one girl saying: "Yeah whatever let them look at my nudies, I dont' care"...
the NSA is just for spying on American citizens with some FBI and CIA jobs moved to it
What's the counter to that sentence then?
Every time I try to explain why this is a dumb sentence using the door lock analogy I always get rebuffed by it.
Do you have kids? Where do they go to school? What time are they off? When did you last go to the doctor? What medication do you use? Etc. Etc.
"Do you have a shredder? Do you keep your payment information in an exposed location. If you found out a company leaked your credit card data, your phone number, everything you'd ever said to your therapist, how would you feel?"
First, when you get into these arguments, always start from the viewpoint that these people do not see any worth in their data. Their convenience is worth way more than any privacy breach. That's why your goal is usually to convince them that privacy breaches can be a huge innconvenience for them, use their selfishness to advocate for their self-interest.
Quick example, what defines something that needs to be hidden changes constantly with different governments and regulatory bodies. There's no telling if your current data won't be illegal or something in the future, causing you problems. That's why it's important to have protections for your data to begin with so a future government can't just unilaterally decide to trample all over your rights.
Basically, see what they care about and try advocating from that viewpoint, not your personal viewpoint. There's a good chance you'll have a line of argument.
I find that I have more success convincing people if I put their self-interest first and foremost instead of trying to explain some grand ideology. People want something tangible, not a hazy ideal. It's only when something affects them that they may change their views.
Ask them about their bank, all their passwords, the contact information of everyone they ever loved, ya know, in case you ever need to use that information against them or without their consent,
keep going till they are properly creeped out and as upset as they should be at anyone but them knowing that information.
Ask them the pin code or credit card number.
When they refuse to give it, reply "So you do have something to hide."
I would likely go with would you change clothes with the door open? Would you take a shit in the public? How would it feel if someone took a picture of you naked? This won't likely work for those who have this kinks though lmao.
To be fair though, with those kinks there's a pretty big difference between always being pushed into that situation instead of in a controlled environment you prepared for, interactions you planned out with peope who you trust to a certain degree with safety put in place for a pre-specified amount of time.
I think the key word there is consent. And the other important topic is distribution.
Would you consent to having your picture taken naked is different to someone taking a picture without you knowing or them asking for consent. If you wanted the picture of you naked and the person wanted to take a picture of you naked, both sides consented. But then how it is distributed is another matter. You can still not have the consent a person would need to distribute the picture. This is why it’s becoming illegal in more and more countries to show a naked picture to someone you took with your phone even if that person consented to have the picture taken that does not mean they consent to you to distribute it acting on behalf as their agent. In cases where this has happened the person poses or sends the picture to one person they want to have it. That isn’t agency to distribute it or/and make money off of it.
A person taking a shit in public or changing with the door open are both examples of giving consent to be publicly seen if you’re deciding to do the act however the witnesses to it are not giving consent to have it in their space to be forced to see it. But then should one of the witnesses have a cel phone and film you shitting or changing in public, this also falls into the you-didn’t-consent to how it’s distributed.
The whole privacy issue is it is done entirely without one person giving consent to have their information distributed. Even if you did consent to give that person some personal information, they then decide without your consent to act as your agent about your personal information in how it’s distributed.
If you didnt hide your preferences, likes, dislikes, etc. from ad giants like facebook they show you ads and suck out your wealth, doing psychological experiments using you - might be a good argument but people may even ignore that
I say "yes, and you do too, that's why we have HIPPA. You think we should get rid of HIPPA?"
All the answers you got show why this conversation goes badly. No one can come up with an actual problem that data collection causes, it's all silly comparisons to giving people your credit card number or shitting in front of them.
For me, having my data collected is like having CCTV cameras in stores. Yeah, technically someone is filming everything I do. Yeah it would be bad if a private individual was filming me for nefarious reasons. But no one actually uses that data for anything bad, and it doesn't actually cause any problems.
All that happens is I get more relevant ads.
"But it's so convenient" is a close second
I actually enjoy that sentence, because you can ask them for the pin code of their bank card.
If I don’t have anything to hide then why do they need to record me?
It's not only online privacy. Every fucking major intersection in the city has cameras. There are no public places where there isn't a security camera watching. I can't even go to Wendy's without a camera watching me eat.
It's even people in tech. I work with someone who will gladly take tech claims at face value, and call me a conspiracy theorist on data collection. I said I didn't want a smart thermostat because it increases our attack surface and he immediately snapped back with "oh China is gonna get us". Like... No these things have had CVEs already and will again