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this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
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Attacks that kill Russian civilians are very likely a real possibility as this war drags on, and they're likely to get a bit of diplomatic wiggle room when that occurs. Not outright support, but probably not a significant amount of actual political blowback, aside from public statements.
However, burning civilians alive with white phosphorus, would almost certainly be a terrible move for Ukraine. If the goal is to build pressure within the Russian population on Putin to end the war, I think videos of women and children being burned alive would have the opposite effect and only build/retrench Russian domestic support for a long war. As well the risk of real diplomatic blowback from their external partners.
Also, and you know, it's a horrific and barbaric act.
I agree with you about the risk that the Russian population is less likely to put pressure on Puta to stop the war. But, currently, they are not placing any real pressure on Puta at all.
A significant portion of the population is, unfortunately, conservative and in support of the war. The intelligent Russians, however, are already opposed and will not be easily fooled into supporting the war. I don't think these lines will move much, even if the war starts hitting them at home. The conservatives who are not vocally supportive were already not going to oppose the war, no matter how long it lasts.
I think the two possible outcomes of bombing them in their homes is either continued (but louder) support for the war or louder voices opposing it. I think most Russians already have strong opinions on the matter that will not be reversed by local bombings (even horrific ones).
The majority of the Russian population is actually depoliticized. The goal of attacks on Russian soil is done specifically to re-politicize them and do so in a way that advances the goal of ending the war.
I would recommend you watch some of Vlad Vexler's videos on the subject. He's a Soviet born political philosopher who lives in the UK. He does a much better job explaining this subject, including why Ukraine can and will expand the war further into Russia as it drags on, and what the goal of that should be, amongst many other subjects.
https://youtube.com/@VladVexler
Thank you for the suggestion. I will look into him.
So you (would) support those barbaric acts?
I mean, just so I can put you in the right bucket.
This is Russia's war. These acts are playing by the rules Russia insists upon.
Would you have Ukraine just take an endless onslaught of "barbaric acts" from Russia without any regard for the common rules of war? Because that is what will happen if Russia's heinous violence is not brought right back to them.
Let Russians experience war-torn homes and villages for themselves. Let them experience the hell that Russia has visited upon Ukraine every day for the last 2 years so they can decide if they still support Pinche Puta and his genocide of Ukrainians.
Unless you want Ukraine's strategy to be forced into an insurgency fighting a full occupation, they need Western weapons and munitions to keep the up the current fight.
You're advocating that they literally start intentionally burning civilians alive, which would be one the quickest and more surefire way to end that support, which is already becoming more fragile as the war drags on.
Ukraine is an extensional fight for survival and I DON'T believe in overly moralizing the deaths of Russian civilians, but how they are actually killed matters. If they are nearby an assassins bomb, or an exploding military factory, is entirely different then launching banned weapons like White Phosphorus over their town for the express purpose of burning them alive.
If you're Ukrainian, I understand the impulse. However I stand by my assessment of how that type of attack will ultimately blowback and critically impact your ability to win this war on your own terms, but I get it the raw hatred.
If you're a Western observer, I'm genuinely concerned about you, and others like you. This level of dehumanizing civilians and wanting to see them burned alive is poisonous, both to your own mental health, but also to public discourse, and ultimately, to Ukraine's ability to defeat Russia regain full control of it's country, and secure their right to self determination.