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[-] fathog@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

If a wind turbine is bombed, it’s not a hazard for thousands of years. Given humanity’s need to kill each other, nuclear plants are a time bomb

[-] Sneezydinosaur@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

This is the way.

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 5 months ago
[-] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago
[-] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Solar, wind, geothermal and biofuels

Aka renewables

So while the progress of the last few decades in renewables is great progress, I'm certain you can see why we need to divest from oil and invest in nuclear tech to take up the base load

[-] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

I'm surprised that solar isn't yet big enough to be broken out on its own.

I'm also surprised that natural gas is outgrowing everything else.

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 5 months ago

We only recently developed the technology to make it more feasible. They used to just light it off and burn it at the wells when they would tap it.

[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

It’s just not feasible to scale to the point that we would need to scale it to sufficiently power our societies

Anything to back that up?

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 5 months ago
[-] awwwyissss@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago

We could use solar (or other renewables/nuclear) to power hydrogen fuel cells, then take the energy where it's needed.

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 5 months ago

Hydrogen transport is also a mass of pain in the ass because hydrogen being the noblest of gases and only a single hydrogen molecule likes to seep out of every container we've ever made and there's no way to permanently contain it.

[-] awwwyissss@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago

Yeah agreed, but still it seems better than what we're doing now.

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)
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[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Hydrogen transport is also a mass of pain in the ass because hydrogen being the noblest of gases and only a single hydrogen molecule likes to seep out of every container we’ve ever made and there’s no way to permanently contain it.

This statement you've made here is mostly accurate and informative. Hydrogen isn't a noble gas, its brother Helium is. Hydrogen is highly reactive. However, your points about Hydrogen storage and transport are spot on. You're not insulting nor condescending in this post. Nearly every other response you've made in this whole post is the opposite.

You are clearly capable of civil and informative responses, but because you have so few you've lost the audience you want to inform/persuade a long time ago. Are you aware of that?

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 5 months ago

This is /c/shitpost im not debating civilly as the arguments I get aren't in good faith 9 times out of 10. I'm not here to be a school teacher. More of a doomsday preacher

[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

I asked you if you had anything to back that up. The answer is no.

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Fuck it! Here's a hypothetical a magic genie. Just granted My wish and gave us enough solar to actually power everything we need. Now one six of every country on Earth is covered in solar panels. Here's the catch though you need to Learn more about how electrical grids work then come back to me once you realized we would have to rebuild an even bigger worldwide connected grid to make solar and a battery powered society actually functional and that we currently have no way to make battery storage equitable and affordable enough to store the amount of energy we would need to store everyday to power our societies through the night.

[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

You're still doing it. Your run on paragraphs aren't worth much, if you want me to take you seriously, please provide links to valid sources to back up your argument.

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Here comes the airplane say aaah

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=36393#:~:text=The%20per%2Dmile%20cost%20of,proposals%20and%20relevant%20regulatory%20filings

https://howtostoreelectricity.com/costs-of-1-mw-battery/#:~:text=Given%20the%20range%20of%20factors,on%20the%20factors%20mentioned%20above.

Solar gets cheaper everyday. Battery storage is not nearly equitable enough at this point in time. Small modular reactors are much more cost effective at the current price point than battery will be for the next 15 to 20 years.

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[-] kbin_space_program@kbin.run 0 points 5 months ago

Natural gas is just Methabe and is being pushed by big oil, since it needs all of the infrastructure they already have.

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I'm surprised that solar isn't yet big enough to be broken out on its own.

and that's the problem. It's not even enough of our power generation to be its own separate entity on the graph, but these people expect it to just magically power the planet in the next 5 years.

[-] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 0 points 5 months ago

It's rather the opposite. Big oil pushes nuclear because nuclear directly competes with renewables, and because nuclear is a centralised power generation solution that they can fully own, in contrast with stuff like rooftop solar or onshore wind. Shell has a share in General Atomics, BP is eyeing investments into nuclear energy.

Nuclear fusion might truly be an answer, but there is nothing that nuclear does that renewables can also do, but cheaper and faster.

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Literal fucking oil shill. Tell me. Where did I ever say to not keep building solar? Where did I ever say that we should let oil Giants maintain their monopolies. I agree that we do need to continue to expand renewable options at a local and state level, not a corporate fossil fuel level. Open your goddamn eyes and read the five graphs I've pasted so far in this common thread. Please make me understand how if technology we've been investing in more heavily than anything else for 20 years and that only now takes up 16% of our total energy needs is going to magically cover the other fucking 84%. Of the base load.

[-] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 0 points 5 months ago

Money spent building nuclear is money not spent on renewables. I didn't say you said to stop building solar, but deciding to build nuclear does mean building less solar, simple allocation of resources.

Solar energy particularly has been becoming increasingly efficient and cheap. In fact, it's ahead of even the most optimistic expectations price-wise.

There's been plenty of studies showing that nuclear is not theoretically required to achieve 100% fossil-fuel free energy generation. And we've known this since 2009: https://frontiergroup.org/articles/do-we-really-need-nuclear-power-baseload-electricity/#:~:text=Nuclear%20power%20proponents%20argue%20that,baseload%20power%20other%20than%20nuclear.

Wind, solar, geothermal, hydro and energy storage solutions are perfectly capable of providing the full energy demand whenever we require it. The only issue is building sufficient amounts of it.

In fact, nuclear is particularly bad at providing base power. The reason is that renewables are so cheap (and becoming cheaper), that one of the main issues has turned into having too much power on the grid. Nuclear unfortunately doesn't turn off and on very quickly. Many old reactors take a couple hours to do so, and even if it's technically possible it's financially impossible because the reactor would be running at too large a loss. When dealing with fluctuating power (mostly caused by the day/night cycle of solar, other effects mostly even out if the grid is large enough), you need a backup system that can also easily turn on and off. Energy storage and hydrogen can do this, nuclear can't.

Then there's the energy security argument. 40% of uranium imports come from Russia. Kazakhstan is an alternative, but even that is largely controlled by Rosatom.

Literal fucking oil shill.

Please stay civil. I'm happy to debate you but you can keep the insults to yourself. I'm very much against the oil industry. I'm not even necessarily against nuclear as a technology (I think it's safe and don't think the waste will be too big of an issue, also fusion is really cool science), but I have to conclude that it doesn't make financial sense to go for nuclear, there's practical problems integrating it with a renewable grid and we just have better alternatives.

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I'm calling you an oil shill because nobody is pushing nuclear. Nuclear is being decommissioned nuclear power is not on the rise for the last 20 years. There has been a net loss of nuclear power and the only country's building reactors currently are China, India and Russia. So your entire rhetoric is flawed.

[-] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 0 points 5 months ago

Nobody is pushing nuclear? Strange, I wonder why in my country numerous parties have been pushing for nuclear then (mostly right-wing pro-corporation parties with fossil fuel donors).

Here's an article if you don't believe me: https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/03/let-the-state-build-new-nuclear-power-stations-vvd-and-cda/

There's plenty of parties pushing nuclear. The fact that it's hard to actually build doesn't mean that there's no lobbying effort being made. And even then, a lobbying effort now will only really result in a net nuclear gain in 10-20 years time when the reactors actually finish.

And for the record, "big oil" , does invest in nuclear. Chevron, Duke Energy, Eni, Shell and BP all investments in some nuclear research or nuclear company. The reason they don't really invest much more is simple: it's barely profitable, if at all. And renewables threaten the financial picture even more.

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

Aww you said feasible. I have fifteen unfeasible plans that I love including cement batteries.

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 5 months ago

My favorite unfeasible plan involves shitloads of Sterling engines

[-] Fisch@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 5 months ago

A lot of countries are doing just fine using only renewables to replace energy generation from fossil fuels. Nuclear is really expensive while renewables are the cheapest. There's just no reason to use nuclear.

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 5 months ago

there are three.

Albania, Iceland, and Paraguay obtain essentially all of their electricity from renewable sources (Albania and Paraguay 100% from hydroelectricity, Iceland 72% hydro and 28% geothermal). You may notice Solar is not mentioned.

[-] Fisch@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 5 months ago

I didn't say countries that already successfully did it, I meant countries that are in the process of doing so. Germany, for example, has no nuclear energy and is getting 60-70% of its energy from renewables. There are countries that are already further along but building renewables takes time. Building a nuclear power plant also takes years but you get nothing from it until it's finished.

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Germany, for example, has no nuclear energy and is getting 60-70% of its energy from renewables.

Gas and Coal are 40% of the Power generation inside German borders but that is not the sum of German consumption. When nuclear was cut more gas was used. This also completely ignores the electricity generated elsewhere in the EU that Germany is Importing.

https://www.ceicdata.com/en/germany/electricity-imports-and-exports/electricity-imports-france

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1403646/germany-monthly-distribution-of-electricity-production-by-source/

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this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2024
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